Hair And Cover

[candlelight]

Thanks, HC.  You are correct.  My FIL pointed this man to the scriptures and he was rebellious, even then.  I remember it well, b/c his wife complained to me about it.  This couple smoked cigarettes, drank booze, and also smoked marijuana.  How exactly did they think they were going to represent the church with this kind of lifestyle?  My FIL only mentioned this man's long hair, but it was clear that many aspects of his life needed repair.  I realize that cigarettes and booze are an addiction, but these things needed to be under control first before the church would allow this couple to do witnessing in the streets.  My FIL told them they looked like street people, and they needed to change that before they could be of help to them.  He was as kind as he could be to these people.   

[JerryNumbers]

In addition to what ASOD said; in first century Greece (likely the rest of Rome as well), married women wore a head covering (like a scarf or a veil that didn't cover the face) as a display of respect, submission, and deference to their husbands. This was done primarily in official religious or political venues but also in some social gatherings as well. Unwed women did not wear such a head covering. Additionally, priestesses of some pagan gods like Aphrodite and Demeter often shaved their heads. In 1 Corinthians, Paul was dealing with a little bit of chaos and contention brought about by the coalescing of these factors. For whatever reason, women who would normally be expected to wear a head covering were not and it was causing strife in the church. This parallel isn't exact, but imagine if a man's wife today decided to stop wearing her wedding ring and start cutting her husband off in the middle of every point he tried to make in a Sunday School/Adult Bible Study class.

 

My grandmother always referred to her husband as Mr. McCrary, never by 1st name. I expect there's many in this world that do not know that, & at one time wife's dd show much respect for their husband, as did husbands.

[JerryNumbers]

A womans long hair shows submission.  Those women with short hair usually are the diminant one's in a marriage, or at least in thier own little group.

 

Long hair on men is defined as Absolom was mentionrd to have, and he too was rebellious.  Something to be said for the hairstyles.

 

Good to see you make a post Marty.

 

Do any of you think its wrong for a woman to cut her hair?

 

Anyone ever read this book by John R. Rice?

 

Bobbed Hair, Bossy Wives, and Women Preachers!

 

My great Aunt Clara, whom I had much love for, although she was a very bossy, nagging, wife to her husband Uncle Coy. What I respected most about her was you always knew what the felt, there was no wishy-washy within her. She stood up for what she believed & thought was true. Nowadays in the Christian community hardly anyone likes for anyone to do that. If you disagree with what they believe they want you to add, but its OK for you to do as you please & there's nothing wrong with it, & if my beliefs offends you I dearly apologize for it & ask you to forgive me.

[Ukulelemike]

Ah, one of my favorite topics! I have said before, I did my Master's thesis on this subject.

 

The simple issue is that a woman is given her long hair as a covering, and this is why it is a glory to her-wearing the hair long, or being covered, shows her submission to the divine order God has established, which is God the Father, God the Son, the Man and the Woman. Jesus is the head of the man, so the man's head must be uncovered so as not to hide the glory of Jesus Christ, in Whose image Man is created; the man is the head of the woman, and she must keep her head covered, to hide the glory of the man, in whose image she is created. But it is HER glory which can be shown, her long hair, because it shows her obedience and even the angels are edified in this show of obedience. 

 

So, if the covering is the long hair, then the man is to wear his hair short-if he wears it long, as a woman, then he is covered and is never fit to pray or speak the word of God, and is showing himself to be taking the role of the woman, according to God's order. A woman who wears her hair short, as a man's, is also not fir to speak the word of God, nor pray, because she is uncovered and is shown to be usurping the role of the man in God's order.

 

How long is long? How short is short? Well, for a woman, her long hair is likened to the 'covering', which in Greek refers to a veil or a mantle, something one might throw around their face  and head to cover them. That should be a good picture. How short is short? I suppose, too short to do this. I'd also say, if there's a question, make it shorter/longer. Obviously the Apostles and Jesus didn't wear high and tight haircuts, but neither were they coiffed as we see in many of the popular works of art of Jesus and His disciples. It may be that some of the best depictions might belong to the Mormons and JW's, oddly, because they seem to get the hair right. Hey, even a broken clock is correct twoice a day, right?

 

And yes, its fine for a woman to cut her hair, so long as it remains long. Nothing says they can never cut it.

[John81]

You must be very young. Pink used to be a popular color for men.

Pink was still a color of choice among men's clothes when I was a child but it really went out shortly after that. From what I've noticed, pink men's shirts are making a comeback.

[Ukulelemike]

Don't wear pink, but I love Hawaiian print shirts!

[John81]

I'm 41.  I grew up in the 80's, and in the farm community I grew up in, if a boy came to school wearing that......he'd been beat up.  Not that it was right, but that's what would have happened. 

Pink for men's clothes was out at that time. In the 60s pink was still good for men. I have one photo of a young me in a nice pink dress shirt. Look at some old John Wayne movies and he's wearing a pink shirt.

 

It was a combination of flaming homosexuals taking over pink and the baby industry really pushing hard to make pink colored items for baby girls and blue for baby boys, that ended pink shirts for men.

 

However, it seems the trend is reversing and pink shirts are making a comeback among heterosexual men.

[Ukulelemike]

Pink for men's clothes was out at that time. In the 60s pink was still good for men. I have one photo of a young me in a nice pink dress shirt. Look at some old John Wayne movies and he's wearing a pink shirt.

 

It was a combination of flaming homosexuals taking over pink and the baby industry really pushing hard to make pink colored items for baby girls and blue for baby boys, that ended pink shirts for men.

 

However, it seems the trend is reversing and pink shirts are making a comeback among heterosexual men.

They took our rainbow, lets take their pink!

[John81]

What is too long/too short?  The standards are subjective.  

Not really, there is a generally accepted standard of this.

 

One of the easiest ways to follow this is the idea that if one has to ask whether the hair is too long or too short, it is. The short hair should be obviously short while long hair should be obviously long. Among the vast majority, there is general agreement as to what this means.

 

As for Christians, we shouldn't be trying to see how close we can come to having our hair too long or too short, but should rather want it to be clear.

 

Okay. All men report for a Marine recruit haircut party tomorrow and all women, no hair cutting until this time next year!

[ASongOfDegrees]

1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

 

Yes, there's always been men who had long hair, men who do as they wish & listen not to our Great God & His Word.

 

 

When I was young many women wore hats & or scarves, seems that has stopped for the most part. However I know that around here some of the black women were hats to church.

 

I guess this has been more than 12 years back I preached in a church & one woman has a hat on, brought back many fond memories.

Jerry, I wasn't suggesting that there was nothing wrong with long hair on men. But the OP worded his post like no men in the past ever wore long hair.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I do not believe the woman's hair was or is her covering.  If it were, these verses would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

1 Corinthians 11:5-6 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

Now, substitute the words covered and uncovered with hair and no hair and read it  again:

1 Corinthians 11:5-6 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with no hair on her head dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman have no hair, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her have hair.

Makes absolutely no sense.  If she has no hair it is as if she were shaven?  Doesn't say if she has short hair, it says of she be not covered.  If the hair is the covering, then that would mean if she have no hair.  If she have no hair, let her be shaven?

Wait!  If she has no hair, what is there to shave?

Sorry guys, but the covering in 1 Corinthians 11 was speaking of something that covered the hair, not the hair itself.

[Ukulelemike]

I do not believe the woman's hair was or is her covering.  If it were, these verses would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

1 Corinthians 11:5-6 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

Now, substitute the words covered and uncovered with hair and no hair and read it  again:

1 Corinthians 11:5-6 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with no hair on her head dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman have no hair, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her have hair.

Makes absolutely no sense.  If she has no hair it is as if she were shaven?  Doesn't say if she has short hair, it says of she be not covered.  If the hair is the covering, then that would mean if she have no hair.  If she have no hair, let her be shaven?

Wait!  If she has no hair, what is there to shave?

Sorry guys, but the covering in 1 Corinthians 11 was speaking of something that covered the hair, not the hair itself.

To be uncovered doesn't mean to have NO hair, it means to have short hair. Simple. If she's going to wear her hair short like a man, then she is in rebellion and might as well shave it all off. It makes perfect sense. Especially the part where it says her hair is given her for a covering.

[Arbo]

Not really, there is a generally accepted standard of this.

 

One of the easiest ways to follow this is the idea that if one has to ask whether the hair is too long or too short, it is. The short hair should be obviously short while long hair should be obviously long. Among the vast majority, there is general agreement as to what this means.

 

 

Of course it is.  It is society that sets the standard.  If the standard is set by opinion (vast majority or other) it is changeable and therefore subjective.

 

Did Christ have long hair?  I'd venture to guess that many here would say yes.  In his day, I'd guess no.

[Ukulelemike]

Of course it is.  It is society that sets the standard.  If the standard is set by opinion (vast majority or other) it is changeable and therefore subjective.

 

Did Christ have long hair?  I'd venture to guess that many here would say yes.  In his day, I'd guess no.

I'd venture to say, No, because Jesus wasn't a NAzarite, and the sign of a NAzarite was not cutting their hair, thus, long hair. If Paul, by the Holy Ghost, said that it was a shame for a man to have long hair, then Jesus was shameful and was rebellious against the very Order that He both set and was a part of.

 

This is not a societal standard, but a biblical one. Yes, at one time many pastors and preachers had long hair-but it still didn't make it right, even if society accepted it. Maybe especially if society accepted it.

[JerryNumbers]

how did we go from hair and cover to pink. so if we are hear lots just say the only time a men should wear pink is for cancer i lost my mom and my wife sister to cancer that the only time.

 

I don't like pink, for its about the Susan G. Komen foundation who supports Planned Parenthood & abortion.

 

Komen Still Sends Big Bucks to Planned Parenthood Abortion Business

 

If you give to the Komen foundation, the pink people, your money just may go to support abortions, I would not support it in any manner nor recommend anyone to.