Alcohol: A Biblical Case For Abstinance

[paid4]

Psalms 104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

 

All these scriptures have already been posted.

 

Moderation, prohibition, abstinence.  Believe what you want.  I personally believe in abstinence. My mom always said "be smart, don't start."

 

Negative references refer to fermentation.  Positive references refer to juice.  No one is consistent and can make up their mind.

 

My concern isn't what you believe about alcohol.  It's that you think you have the right to say who goes to hell.

 

We are to share the good news and make disciples.  That's our responsibility as Christians.  Not determine where one spends eternity because they don't agree with you.  Stop doing God's job and using scripture to try to justify it. 

 

John Chapter 3 determines who is going to hell and who is not. The doctrine of condemnation. Some people say they're on the fence but satan owns the fence too. If you're drinking and feel guilty about it......is it right? Always remember who God is and who we are. We are a sinful being redeemed by a Holy God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Also read 1 & 2 Corinthians and Romans about carnality and liberty. May god bless and strengthen our walk with Him.

[candlelight]

Everyone who has been in a similar conversation with me on alcohol, knows that I vehemently oppose drinking alcohol. 

With that in mind, no one answered Laura's post about the Jews that hold to Torah/Tanach drink alcholic beverages and promote it, as well.  I know that there are warnings about alcohol consumption from way back in the Book of Deuteronomy.  As Laura stated, Torah is the first five books of the OT.  If the Book of Deuteronomy opposes strong drink, then why do Torah Observant Jews drink alcohol? 

[allen32]

lets put it this way don't drink it all before i get save i drink a lot. and i get i kid from it love her it the only kid i have. 1 corinthians 6:10 , galatians 5:21

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If "Torah Observant Jews" drink alcohol, it is obvious they are not as "observant" as they should be.

The Torah does not condone the drinking of alcohol.

[candlelight]

If "Torah Observant Jews" drink alcohol, it is obvious they are not as "observant" as they should be.

The Torah does not condone the drinking of alcohol.

Interesting.  Every Orthodox/Hasidic Jew, Rabbi, and RAV that I know on Facebook drinks alcohol.  I don't understand how they drink it and promote it if Torah says they should not.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Deuteronomy 29:6 (KJV)
Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I [am] the LORD your God.

They must have missed this verse. It is those who do not drink alcohol who know the LORD as their God.

Alcohol clouds the mind. How can one who drinks know the LORD as their God?

Proverbs 31:4 (KJV) 4 [it is] not for kings, O Lemuel, [it is] not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Proverbs 31:5 (KJV) 5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

[candlelight]

Amen, SFIC!  It just boggles my mind that these Jews would even think of drinking alcohol when their Torah... O.T. strictly says not to drink strong drink or wine.

When I was in my early 20's, I was invited to an Orthodox Jewish wedding.  I remember all the Jews getting drunk there, too.  I was also unsaved, and didn't know what the Bible said about alcohol, until studying it, so I had a drink or two, as well.  We danced the Jewish wedding dance the Hava Nagila at the reception.  I learned how to dance this dance in cultural dancing class in fifth grade, when I was in public school.  The rabbi said, I danced better than any of the Jewish women there.    Thankfully, those lost days have been long gone.  Praise the Lord for His Word! 

 

[MountainChristian]

If it was only juice it was still sinful. liquor of grapes = grape juice. Nothing includes juice, grapes, raisins. What do you use during the Lord's Supper?

³ He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

⁴ All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

The problem with your view of "oinos" is your failure to realize that there are two different classes of "oinos" in the Bible.  Fermented and non-fermented. 

Just supposing that the wine served at the wedding feast were alcoholic.  John 2 tells us that the guests had "well drunk" that wine that the governor provided.  In fact, they had drunk so much that they literally emptied the house of the supply of wine..

Now, every Jewish wedding feast lasted for days, and it was considered a disgrace for the bridegroom not to provide enough wine to last the entire time of the festivities.  Yet, the guests had drunk so much that they literally ran out of wine.

Imagine how bad that would look on the bridegroom if news got out.  Thankfully, Jesus was on the scene.  But wait!  If the guests had "well drunk" the wine that was provided to them to the point that there was no more, what would Jesus and His Disciples do?

Jesus had a solution.  He made more by turning water into wine. 

So, the picture we have is a bunch of people drinking more then their share of wine and Jesus providing more for them... 120 to 180 gallons more?

Jesus makes enough wine for those who had "well drunk" to get drunker?  Adding to their drunkenness?  Impossible!

Proverbs 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

 

My Lord came to seek and to save that which was lost, not help them further down the road to destruction.  The wine Christ made was new.  It was not alcoholic in the least.

Ephesians 5 is speaking of an alcoholic wine.  And the reader is warned not to get drunk on it.  The best way to assure not getting drunk is to not partake of it at all.

Alcohol begins its deception from the very first sip of it.  Being absorbed into the bloodstream and traveling through the circulatory system of the body.  When it hits the brain, it kills brain cells. (perhaps this is why so many try to defend it today, it has killed the brain cells that cause them to know the full potential of its deceptive power until it is too late)  The more one drinks, the closer one becomes to being smashed. 

The wise king Solomon told his son not to look upon the wine when it was fermented.  And yet, so many blindly defend the drinking of alcohol. 

As Christians, we should be preaching against man putting that deadly drink to his lips, not giving his excuses to partake of it.

[TheSword]

Hello TheSword,

 

I am new to this forum and posted my first new topic today.

 

You are not wrong at all on your primary point or your motive.

 

The ONLY Biblical exception to the promotion of abstinence from alcohol is in Proverbs 31:6-7:

 

Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

 

By comparing Scripture with Scripture, we see that this exception applies ONLY to those who are terminally ill and are in unbearable pain. "Those with heavy hearts" does NOT refer to people who are mourning or otherwise sad or depressed.

 

Sadly, if you were to purchase booze for these people, you would be supporting the same booze industry that has contributed to too many needless deaths, heartbreaks, and ruined lives to count. This is the same booze industry that uses provocative imagery and advertisements to dupe "regular" people into thinking they can have great pleasure and "fun" by drinking their poison.

 

Those who choose to "modernize" their views on this subject are basing their thoughts, words, and opinions on their feelings/emotions rather than the Lord's Word or proven scientific facts, just like lost people do.

 

Keep standing strong for the Lord and the precious KJV!

 

In His service,

Alex

 

I certainly agree. However, I would also like to point out that the exception in Pro 31:6-7 is not really condoning the use of alcohol. In context, the previous verses (4 and 5) a direct instruction not to partake. What we find is a common rhetorical device used in Proverbs that draws a distinction through thesis-antithesis. When read as a whole, it is basically saying not to drink strong drink (i.e. alcohol) so that the Law and judgment can be properly discerned, but rather give it to the people who have given up on life and living according to the Law and judgment. Give it to the people who don't care or think they will find comfort in it because what they desire is physical pleasure/relief and nothing spiritual.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Numbers 6:2 (KJV) 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate [themselves] to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate [themselves] unto the LORD:

Numbers 6:3 (KJV) 3 He shall separate [himself] from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

Numbers 6:4 (KJV) 4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

Those verses pertain to the Nazarite vow. The one who takes a Nazarite vow could not even participate in the Lord's Supper.

[Arbo]

There were methods recorded in the firsts century of preserving wines so they would not ferment. My wife and I successfully imitated one of those methods and kept the resulting wine for two years without it fermenting in the least.

 

Please describe the method.

[TheSword]

I've been out of town the the last few days and haven't keeping up with this; but after catching up, I would like to respectfully request the issue of fermented vs. unfermented grape juice and similar subjects be taken up in another thread as asked for in the OP. That is a deep issue that certainly warrants discussion, but distracts from the main question of this thread.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

There actually were several methods of preserving wine in its unfermented state.

The one we used was one described by Pliny the Elder. That is, boiling it to kill any yeasts. Then sealing it in an amphora (bottle) and storing it in a dark cool place. In his description, the cool place was in a millpond.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

One to add to the not being around those who are drinking would be

1 Peter 4:3 (KJV) 3 For the time past of [our] life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

The word banquetings is speaking of social drinking

Note that it says in the past they walked as the Gentiles... Excess of wine (full drunkenness) and banquetings (social drinking)

So much for toasts at weddings!

And Peter identifies these acts, not as Christian traits, but as Gentile traits.

[MountainChristian]

I've been out of town the the last few days and haven't keeping up with this; but after catching up, I would like to respectfully request the issue of fermented vs. unfermented grape juice and similar subjects be taken up in another thread as asked for in the OP. That is a deep issue that certainly warrants discussion, but distracts from the main question of this thread.

If we remove the juice vs wine then both are forbiden and allowed.

1 Tim 5

23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Titus 1

⁷ For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

 

Also, a decon it says "not given to much wine", a bishop "not given to wine". One can have a little but the other nothing.

 

Plus we have to throw this verse in the mix.

Col 2:16

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"