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Are Christians That Drink Wine Not Saved?


The Glory Land

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Posted

Actually, it is you who is wrong.

I have given Scripture that clearly shows abstinence is to be observed.

No you have given Wisdom Literature....you do not derive doctrine from Wisdom literature....here's something else Solomon says:

Ecc. 9: 6 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Ecc. 9: 7 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
 
Ever and anon...the tee-totaller appeals to Proverbs and wisdom literature for commands about things they can't get clear commands from the Law and Prophets for.  Wisdom Literature supports doctrine which is laid out in other books. 
 
Here are two other "commands" directly from Proverbs:
Prov 26: 4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Prov. 26: 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

 

Does the Bible contradict ITSELF!!!!!!        Alas  Padawan have no fear...it does not, as Exegetes know you don't derive "commands" or "doctrines" as such from proverbs...if you do, you'll be in a heap-o trouble.   Tee-totallers do so, of course and that, quite selectively.

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Given wisdom Literature....The Scriptures apparently command you to give booze to homeless bums who ask you for cash on the street SF:
Prov 31: 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Prov 31: 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

Why do you not obey these clear commands?

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Posted

You have just revealed to the board that you are a false prophet. 

You say we do not get doctrine from Wisdom literature in the Bible.  Yet the Bible teaches

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Thou savorest not the things that be of God. but of the things of man.

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Posted

 

Given wisdom Literature....The Scriptures apparently command you to give booze to homeless bums who ask you for cash on the street SF:
Prov 31: 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Prov 31: 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

Why do you not obey these clear commands?

That verse says nothing of homeless bums.  It is speaking of those who are dying. 

The more you post on this subject, the more you prove you have no reading comprehension skills when it comes to the Word of God.

And you say you are on a Church staff???   What position?  Janitor?

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Posted

My best friend is the same way.  He ceased drinking because he went to SEBTS, which calls for it's students not to drink...

 

Did you warn him to stay away from that liberal and heinous school?  If he doesn't have the sense to stay away from SEBTs, it's no wonder he thinks being a drunkard is ok.  

 

No you have given Wisdom Literature....you do not derive doctrine from Wisdom literature....here's something else Solomon says:

Ecc. 9: 6 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Ecc. 9: 7 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
 

 

You poor thing, don't you know the context that this was written?  Haven't you ever read and then studied Ecclesiastes?

 

Let me ask you, is the King James the only bible that you use?  If not, which MV or MVs are?  What you add to scripture makes me think you're using the NLT.

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That verse says nothing of homeless bums.  It is speaking of those who are dying. 

The more you post on this subject, the more you prove you have no reading comprehension skills when it comes to the Word of God.

And you say you are on a Church staff???   What position?  Janitor?

It is speaking of Two classes of people, not one...and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.  you are conveniently ignoring the second class of person.

 

Try again.

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Posted

Did you warn him to stay away from that liberal and heinous school?  If he doesn't have the sense to stay away from SEBTs, it's no wonder he thinks being a drunkard is ok.  

UMMM.........that "heinous" and "liberal" school is the one which holds the same position which you do about alcohol.........Do you even think before you post? :th_wellduh:

 

You poor thing, don't you know the context that this was written?  

 

 

Yes.

 

Haven't you ever read and then studied Ecclesiastes?

 

Yes.

Let me ask you, is the King James the only bible that you use?  If not, which MV or MVs are?  What you add to scripture makes me think you're using the NLT.

 

You Extremists are so absurd..........you insists that anyone who does not agree with you MUST by necessity have some wicked thing which causes them to do so, such as using "M.V.'s"  Other-wise (to minds like yours) they could not POSSIBLY differ with you about something.  The answer is......I do not use M.V.'s as I am KJVO....So much so, in fact, that I deal with tee-totalling extremists at the I.F.B. Church I attend in large part for exclusively that reason.

 

But, as it is.....SEBTS (which again shares your hang-up about alcohol) does, in fact espouse the use of Modern Versions.........You really don't read your own posts prior to pressing the "Post" button do you?  In your attempt to create a smear you have inadvertently impugned your own P.O.V.  (This is why "guilt by association" and "ad hominems" such as you and S.F. are presently engaged in are ill-advised devices to use.)  They are back-firing on you.

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Posted

This fellow is deceived, blinded, and the truth is before his very eyes.  All we can do at this point is pray for him and hope that he responds to the Holy Spirit's promptings to get right with the Lord on this issue; that is, if God has saved him in the first place.  I don't remember his testimony.

 

Prayed!   :icon_pray:

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Posted

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

You Extremists are so absurd......

 

I am KJVO....So much so, in fact, that I deal with tee-totalling extremists at the I.F.B. Church I attend in large part for exclusively that reason.

 

You really don't read your own posts prior to pressing the "Post" button do you?  In your attempt to create a smear you have inadvertently impugned your own P.O.V.  (This is why "guilt by association" and "ad hominems" such as you and S.F. are presently engaged in are ill-advised devices to use.)  They are back-firing on you.

 

Points 1 and 2:  That's great!   :clapping:

 

Point 3: That's a blessing, thank you!   :clapping:

 

Point 4:  Isn't that being deceptive and cruel?  Why are you then in a church, in a position where people support you with their offerings if you despise them?  That's evil IMO.   :eusa_naughty:

 

Point 5:  I'm just a dumb, uneducated divemaster that God saved.  I didn't go to no fancy school like you and don't have a clue what you mean or what a POV is, sounds like some kind of underwater robot.   :smilie_loco:4

 

Can I ask you a question?  Do you like and think CCM music is ok? 

 

Yes, I'm aware of Rice's position on the KJV, he was wrong; look at his kids.

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Posted

This fellow is deceived, blinded, and the truth is before his very eyes.  All we can do at this point is pray for him and hope that he responds to the Holy Spirit's promptings to get right with the Lord on this issue; that is, if God has saved him in the first place.  I don't remember his testimony.

 

Prayed!   :icon_pray:

And............here we have the default death-knell of any extremist when losing a debate it is

Step 1: Consign them to Hell

Step 2: Continuously accuse them and call upon them to repent

Step 3: Piously pretend to be "lovingly" praying for them in good faith (usually after a dearth of insults)

This is why I.F.B. still play 2nd Fiddle to the S.B.C.....because of a Spirit of condemnation surrounding so many of it's preachers and membership.

Please, save your breath, I do not covet your prayers.

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Posted

Wine has been also taken in large quantities, for the destruction of pain, for the drowning of misery, for support in the agony of a cruel death. Solomon says, “Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.” It was an old custom, that when a man was doomed, and about to die, they gave him some narcotic cup that he might be somewhat stupefied and suffer the less. There was some mercy in this; though truly “the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.” No doubt many persons have most foolishly taken to drink in order to forget their grief and assuage their sorrow. We must earnestly condemn such wicked conduct; but still, so it is; and the apostle puts it, “Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit”; for that will remove depression and sustain under anguish in a most wonderful way; indeed, in a holy and perfect way. If you want to forget your misery, remember to apply for a sweet visitation of the Comforter. If there has lately happened some great calamity to you, and you are saying, “How shall I bear it?” the answer is, “Be filled with the Spirit of God.” Here shall you drink oblivion of the heavy trial; or, better still, you shall forget the sharpness of the trial, in your knowledge that it worketh patience, and patience experience, and experience hope, which maketh not ashamed. O beloved friend, do not kick at the trial, be willing to bear it; but get more of the indwelling of the sacred Comforter. “Be filled with the Spirit.” Perhaps this may be a direction to some dear friend here who has lately been called to tread a more trying path than usual. “How shall I bear it, sir? How shall I bear it? I never was so tried before.” Seek earnestly for more of the Spirit of God than you ever had before. He will give you in proportion to your necessity. He is fully equal to every emergency. His consolations can balance your tribulations. Wait upon him for the comfort of the Spirit. The day may come when you will glory in your infirmities and afflictions, because God used them to make room for more of his Spirit to dwell in you. Certain I am that if you have to go home to-night to lie for the next twenty years upon a sick bed-and certain of God’s saints have not been off the sick-bed for all that time-or if all your property is gone, and you are called to endure poverty during the rest of your pilgrimage; or if you shall hear of the death of the dearest one you have, if the Holy Spirit be but given in a larger measure to you, you will have more happiness and more content, and be a better man by reason of all this affliction that has come upon you. God grant that you may find it to be true that you may forget your poverty and misery, and discover no gall in your bitterest cup! May you drink deep draughts of the joy of the Lord till you are filled with the Spirit of God! Touch not the wine-cup, lest in this you dishonor the Holy Ghost, who by his own power is able to cheer your heavy heart. -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon
 

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Posted

Point 4:  Isn't that being deceptive and cruel?  Why are you then in a church, in a position where people support you with their offerings if you despise them?  That's evil IMO.   :eusa_naughty:

 

 

Incidentally...I do not take a pay-check.  I used to, but I prefer not to.   And I do not decieve them into believing that I agree with the Constitution on that issue, I simply agree to follow the conscience of it, and do not teach anything other than what the Senior Pastor teaches.  I don't agree with him on EVERYTHING...but, I don't teach anything contrary to what his beliefs are.  I do not despise "them" I love them very much...I despise those who condemn others for what the Bible does not condemn them for.  Namely, alcohol.  There are plenty of people who personally do not drink for their own conscience, and plenty who have no problem with it there, but they do not condemn others for failure to agree with them, nor offer to pray for their very souls about it, nor question their sincerity or salvation.

 

There is room for Christians to not always agree but to be at peace with their brothers in Christ.  It would cause dissention if I taught my P.O.V. on the issue as a fact, so I do not.  I am often asked on the side, and I simply tell them my personal view and then encourage them to study the issue for themselves, and to also ask our Pastor what his view is.  That's how it's done.

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Wine has been also taken...............May you drink deep draughts of the joy of the Lord till you are filled with the Spirit of God! Touch not the wine-cup, lest in this you dishonor the Holy Ghost, who by his own power is able to cheer your heavy heart. -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon
 

I've read this before, it's a good read S.F. thanks for posting

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