Pastor’S Salary Cap

[Standing Firm In Christ]

A paid pastor is unscriptural. Like it or not, the Word of God says Elders should WORK.

[DaveW]

Chapter and verse, explained in full, in context.

[John81]

Our church board sets the pastors salaries. The base pay is based upon local wages and raises are considered once a year. Our pastor lives in the parsonage, but all expenses are his responsibility except for repair and upkeep on the parsonage. For years there was no retirement account but thanks to God's increase we now have a retirement account for our pastor too.

 

Our pastors, senior and associate, are at the church 6 days a week and tending to church business when they are out of the church on one of those days. Our pastors "earn their pay", and considering the hours they put in (plus the fact pastors are basically "on call" 24/7) they are making less than they would working the same hours in many other jobs where they would have the perks of overtime pay.

[irishman]

Pastors should be paid enough that they need not worry about $$.  There are ways though and times, that they should live by faith.  I wonder sometimes about missionaries that "can't go to _______until they raise enough money.  Myabe have their air fare paid, and some for "necessities", but going to the field is a faith mission, and Gos will never let him down who fully trusts in him.

 

Besides, that's what tithes are for in the church!

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist it!)

[John81]

Pastors should be paid enough that they need not worry about $$.  There are ways though and times, that they should live by faith.  I wonder sometimes about missionaries that "can't go to _______until they raise enough money.  Myabe have their air fare paid, and some for "necessities", but going to the field is a faith mission, and Gos will never let him down who fully trusts in him.

 

Besides, that's what tithes are for in the church!

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist it!)

It amazes me that when we read of the missionaries from years gone by, when the Lord called them to go, they collected together what they could as they prepared to go, and then they went. No going around pleading for money and saying they won't go, or having some missionary board unwilling to allow them to go, until they raised a certain amount of money. Also, many of the missionaries mostly supported their own way once in the field and were grateful to get whatever did come their way from a church or individual Christians.

 

Too many missionaries today, at least from America, think they have to have enough money to live as close to the way they did in America as they can overseas.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

"When I wrote this book I had not observed that in addressing the elders of Ephesus, St. Paul definitely directs them to follow his example and to support themselves (Acts 20:34-35). The right to support is always referred to wandering evangelists and prophets, not to settled local clergy (see Matthew 10:10; Luke 10:7; 1 Corinthians 9:1-14) with the doubtful exceptions of Galatians 6:6 and 1 Timothy 5:17-18, and even if those passages do refer to money gifts, they certainly do not contemplate fixed salaries which were an abomination in the eyes of the early Christians (p.50). " - Roland Allen

"In his [Paul] letters he discloses that he worked night and day with his own hands to support himself, so that no one would ever be able to accuse him of depending on the hearers of the Gospel for his material needs (compare 1 Samuel 12:3). He refused to be a burden to anyone in the churches he established. By performing manual labor, he provided for his financial needs. Paul received gifts from the believers in Philippi, as he himself reveals (Philippians 2:25; 4:16-18), yet he declares that he did not solicit those gifts . . . The Ephesian elders had observed Paul’s ministry and physical work during his three-year stay. They were able to testify that he had never exploited anyone (2 Corinthians 7:2), but had always set an example of diligence and self-sufficiency, in the good sense of the word. He was a model to the believers and taught the rule: "If you will not work, you shall not eat" (2 Thessalonians 3:10) . . . It appears that Paul generated sufficient income to support not only himself but even his companions . . . In every respect, says Paul to the elders of Ephesus, I taught you to work hard and with your earnings to help the weak . . . He exhorts them to follow his example and to labor hard" (New Testament Commentary: Acts [Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1990] pp.737,740).

It is clear when reading the book of the Acts of the Apostles, that Paul told the Elders of the Church to labor... not only to the end that they might support themselves and others in need. "So labouring, ye ought to support the weak."

"1 Corinthians 9 does not refer to pastors, elders, or any other leader normally associated with today’s church. Instead it refers to "apostles" (those who are sent out), roughly equivalent to today’s missionary. We are to financially support "those who proclaim the Gospel" because of the nature of their work. The fundamental difference between the work of an elder (who is not financially supported) and the work of an apostle (who is financially supported) is that the apostle must uproot and travel from location to location. His stay is temporary; consequently, his odds for gaining employment at each location are slim. He would therefore need financial assistance to do the work for which he was sent. The elder, on the other hand, is stationed at one location. His stay is permanent . . . Even the apostles did not make their living from the church. The passage in question simply means that the need of the apostle for food, shelter, and clothing were to be met by the church (Matthew 10:9-11 was no doubt the pattern that the early church used for apostles). There was no salary involved" (The Practice of the Early Church, pp.41-42).

Many refer to 1 Timothy 5:17-18 and say, "See, pastors are to be paid." That is not what that verse is saying at all. It is simply speaking of honor... respect. For those who say it is speaking of salary for a pastor, let me ask, do you pay the bosses you work for? If not, why not? After all, the same Greek word used for "honor" in 1 Timothy 5 is also used in the following chapter when it tells slaves to honor their master.

I bet not one of you is willing to pay your boss for his making you work.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Pastors should be paid enough that they need not worry about $$.  There are ways though and times, that they should live by faith.  I wonder sometimes about missionaries that "can't go to _______until they raise enough money.  Myabe have their air fare paid, and some for "necessities", but going to the field is a faith mission, and Gos will never let him down who fully trusts in him.

 

Besides, that's what tithes are for in the church!

 

(Sorry, I couldn't resist it!)

Germany WILL NOT let you take a German job and WILL NOT let you into their country without what they consider a "sufficient" and "reliable" source of income if you are staying beyond a 3 month tourist visa, New Caledonia WILL NOT let a missionary in who doesn't have enough in escrow to get out of the country (plane tickets) in case of an emergency.

[John81]

Germany WILL NOT let you take a German job and WILL NOT let you into their country without what they consider a "sufficient" and "reliable" source of income if you are staying beyond a 3 month tourist visa, New Caledonia WILL NOT let a missionary in who doesn't have enough in escrow to get out of the country (plane tickets) in case of an emergency.

I've heard of a few countries like that, and some countries seem to use these rules in order to limit the number of missionaries by requiring overly high amounts for "sufficient funds".

 

This, and other reasons, is why in some cases we are better off helping to train and support native missionaries in certain countries.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Until you get "residency", Russia will not let you stay in country more than 6 months and then requires 6 months out before returning for 6 months. It take 3 years in country to obtain residency (6 calendar years of 6/6 months so that you have 36 months in country). Your passports have to be physically sent to the Russian embassy in D.C. each cycle when applying for your visa (every family member's passports). The Russian consulate charges $940 for their filing fees (I know, I just scanned and stored the receipt for a missionary -- and filed the physical paperwork from the consular in Houston, Tx). This is done EACH TIME!

 

For a family of 4 (2 adults with 2 children) ends up spending $15,000 each year just in paperwork, plane tickets, and fees. 

[OLD fashioned preacher]

I've heard of a few countries like that, and some countries seem to use these rules in order to limit the number of missionaries by requiring overly high amounts for "sufficient funds".

 

This, and other reasons, is why in some cases we are better off helping to train and support native missionaries in certain countries.

I know some missionaries who have trained enough nationals to "work themselves out of a job" which is and should be their goal.

 

I believe a big reason for countries doing this is to keep foreign "bums" from coming and draining their economy and to keep foreigners from taking local jobs from their workers. Our country should be working towards some of the same (I said some, not all of the same)

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Incidentally, $750 / month is living really good in the Philippines but $3000 / month is really tight in Siberia (or northern Alaska or NYC)

[DaveW]

What an absolute mishmash of incomprehensible rubbish.

How about you pick one passage and explain it properly, then move to another passage and explain that one properly, and so on through your argument.

Then someone might be able to follow what you are saying.....

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If you would take the time to read it, you might understand it.

[Anon]

Paul is clear that he personally worked for his own conscience but did not expect others to be the same way. He plainly teaches for churches to support their pastors if they are able.

Most bivocational pastors will tell you that while it works, it isn't optimal for church growth.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Paul is clear that he personally worked for his own conscience but did not expect others to be the same way. He plainly teaches for churches to support their pastors if they are able.
Most bivocational pastors will tell you that while it works, it isn't optimal for church growth.

you are wrong on both statements