Repentance - Biblical Viewpoint

[2Tim215]

Concerning living as a sinner after salvation:

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So according to some Paul was not saved! We have a desire placed within us at salvation to please God, but it's up to us to obey that desire or ignore it. Either action has NO effect on our salvation or we make God a liar!!

[2Tim215]

To answer your question, go to 2 Corinthians 13:5:

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Ahh, KJV1611, she did answer your question, seems you need an examination by your betters you reprobate! But then I am also a reprobate then and happy to be one under these conditions!!
,

[LindaR]

Concerning living as a sinner after salvation:

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So according to some Paul was not saved! We have a desire placed within us at salvation to please God, but it's up to us to obey that desire or ignore it. Either action has NO effect on our salvation or we make God a liar!!

I don't think anybody here has said that Paul was not saved. Neither has anybody said that good works "keep you saved". But the Bible does not teach that a born again Christian can live as he/she please and still make it to heaven. Those who teach that a person can lose salvation do teach a "works salvation". However, salvation is not a "license to sin" Our desire, as was the apostle Paul's, is to please and obey God. I heard a preacher or evangelist ( I can't remember the name of that person) say "If you spend more time 'doing the dos in the Bible, you won't have time to do the don't s "

[2Tim215]

I don't think anybody here has said that Paul was not saved. Neither has anybody said that good works "keep you saved". But the Bible does not teach that a born again Christian can live as he/she please and still make it to heaven. Those who teach that a person can lose salvation do teach a "works salvation". However, salvation is not a "license to sin" Our desire, as was the apostle Paul's, is to please and obey God. I heard a preacher or evangelist ( I can't remember the name of that person) say "If you spend more time 'doing the dos in the Bible, you won't have time to do the don't s "

No, you are right, no one did say that Paul was not saved, but the implication that a believer living in sin will not make it to heaven does. And yes, salvation is a definitely not a license to sin but we are eternally saved - the bible is very clear on that. So how can a person who is eternally saved not go to heaven if they continue to live in sin?

Oh and by the way, the bible does teach that a born again Christian can live as he/she please and still make it to heaven.

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Though this does not give reason to live a life of sin and disobedience it is very clear that it is possible because the grace mentioned is the same grace that saves. Paul continues in the chapter to give the reasons why we should no longer live lives controlled by sin and how we are now free from sin. We know that God is our father and I ask, would any humane father disown his child because he went off for a while and lived with the pigs? Yet God loves us more than any humane father could. And note the "grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" in vrs 21. The righteousness being that of Christ and not our own.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Any person that believes you MUST live a good life after salvation in order to goto heaven is teaching Christ PLUS good works for salvation and IS LOST.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" It's not PLUS live a good life, plus do good works, plus baptism, plus communion, or PLUS ANYTHING. You add anything to salvation and YOU DON'T HAVE IT.

Any person that believes that he or she can continue in sin and still be saved is only fooling himself.

[John81]

Amazing how a couple people just show up here and start promoting unbiblical doctrines.

[2Tim215]

Amazing how a couple people just show up here and start promoting unbiblical doctrines.

No point in stating something without stating who (I assume you imply the two newbies - myself included) or give scripture to base why they are unbiblical. The whole point of a forum is to discuss and learn and as yet no one has given clear scripture to base their doctrines and all I have seen so far is opinion. Edited November 10, 2011 by 2Tim215

[LindaR]

I have posted plenty of Scripture to show that repentance --which is a supernatural work of God which convicts a sinner of his lost condition resulting in that sinner turning to God from sin...the result of which always produces a change of life--is necessary for salvation,

Edited November 10, 2011 by LindaR

[2Tim215]

I have posted plenty of Scripture to show that repentance --which is a supernatural work of God which convicts a sinner of his lost condition resulting in that sinner turning to God from sin...the result of which always produces a change of life--is necessary for salvation,

Below are all the scriptures you posted and I find it strange that the one thing this discussion is all about is - is repentance a prerequisite for salvation - and you will note that you quoted Eph 2: 8+9 - clearly states by faith alone and not by works - no mention of repentance there. And every other verse quoted concerning how we live after salvation has an action required on our part (highlighted red), so basically you confirm with the scriptures you provide my point.

My point is we do not need to repent to be saved - only believe and the fruit and change in our lives is reliant on our actions but could never come about without God in our lives - He gives us the ability to change and bear fruit - yet it is our choice in the end to obey Him and allow Him to "renew our minds" and change our hearts.


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Out of context and not applicable to the gentiles - Jesus was speaking to the Jews here - salvation through His death and resurrection had not yet come about - everything was still by works.


Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

You forgott - 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

And we know that the judgment seat of Christ is for believers only, so explain the "good or bad"

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent ( meaning turnabout) and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance( the "meet" meaning worthy of their decision to turn about).

1Th 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; Edited November 10, 2011 by 2Tim215

[LindaR]

Below are all the scriptures you posted and I find it strange that the one thing this discussion is all about is - is repentance a prerequisite for salvation - and you will note that you quoted Eph 2: 8+9 - clearly states by faith alone and not by works - no mention of repentance there. And every other verse quoted concerning how we live after salvation has an action required on our part (highlighted red), so basically you confirm with the scriptures you provide my point.

My point is we do not need to repent to be saved - only believe and the fruit and change in our lives is reliant on our actions but could never come about without God in our lives - He gives us the ability to change and bear fruit - yet it is our choice in the end to obey Him and allow Him to "renew our minds" and change our hearts.


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Out of context and not applicable to the gentiles - Jesus was speaking to the Jews here - salvation through His death and resurrection had not yet come about - everything was still by works.


Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

You forgott - 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

And we know that the judgment seat of Christ is for believers only, so explain the "good or bad"

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent ( meaning turnabout) and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance( the "meet" meaning worthy of their decision to turn about).

1Th 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

I also posted the entire 3rd chapter of Philippians. Repentance is NOT a work of man...it is a supernatural work of God!

[2Tim215]

I know, didn't have space But I did note this:

Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Actions on our part and Paul exhorting them to do so - But didn't see any mention of repentance.

[LindaR]

I know, didn't have space But I did note this:

Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Actions on our part and Paul exhorting them to do so - But didn't see any mention of repentance.

No...it doesn't mention the word repentance...but the actions and behaviour the apostle Paul describes is evident that he repented because his life was drastically changed AFTER he got saved. That was my point....

[John81]

^"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

Luke 24:47

[swathdiver]

I believe I can live as I please and still goto heaven,

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." - 1 John 2:4

the only 180 degree turn that saves is turning from unbelief to belief.

The moment I saw my daughter's little body on the ultrasound I was cured of my unbelief in 2001. However, it was not until 2007 that I repented and put my trust in Christ. I was biblically saved in 2007, not 2001.

These fellas are putting forth a modern-charismatic, seeker-sensitive, gospel. This is what they teach at Calvary Chapel and other Laodicean churches. This is not what Spurgeon or John R. Rice taught.

I was at a fellowship with about 15 IFB Pastors from across Florida today, none that preached holds to the "believe only" salvation method. About half have been preaching the Word of God for over 30 years, including my pastor.

[2Tim215]

I agree, it is not a believe on Jesus only and be saved doctrine. It's a believe with complete understanding (heart, mind, body, soul) that He is the only way to the Father. That He died for you and the WHY He died for you. Repentance comes after salvation not before. How can one repent before the fact? It is only after salvation that through the Holy Spirit and the Word that we truly are aware of how sin separated us from God. Before salvation we only have an intellectual understanding of sin and how it separates us. How can any man repent of sin spiritually before salvation when he is dead in sin? The flesh can not repent and be saved as this body will physically die in sin. It is the soul that is saved and circumcised through Christ at salvation not the body. It is the soul that is eternally saved. And now because the spirit is quickened through Christ we are AWARE of sin in the flesh and must then repent of it. Repentance is an ongoing action until we die in the flesh, but the soul is no longer accountable as it is separated (circumcised) through Christ and seated in heavenly places.

These fellas are putting forth a modern-charismatic, seeker-sensitive, gospel. This is what they teach at Calvary Chapel and other Laodicean churches. This is not what Spurgeon or John R. Rice taught.

Do not make assumptions based on nothing just because you don't like nor understand what "these fellas " are trying to say. I have been IFB for 25+ years and have studied for my bachelor of divinity through a respected IFB college in the USA. Just because your doctrine is based on Calvinism and mine is not doesn't make me any less saved than you.

Salvation is based on faith and we hope as Paul and the rest did in eternal salvation (Tit 3:7; Tit1:2; Gal 5:5) and what makes yours based on the doctrine of men any better than mine based on the Word of God? Not once have I intentionally mocked or ridiculed any of you but myself and KJV1611 have been called reprobates, unsaved and other things. Is this the the reaction of saved believers? I think not according to the following scripture:

2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Salvation needs to be understood in the mind, accepted in the heart and believed by the action of confessing Christ as Lord. And I would rather base my salvation on the Word of God any day over the doctrine of men!! Edited November 11, 2011 by 2Tim215