It's 1775, Are You A Loyalist Or A Patriot?

[swathdiver]

Please follow up by commenting with Scripture reference(s) for your choice, thanks!

Edited September 2, 2011 by swathdiver

[Salyan]

I'm a Canadian....
(sorry, couldn't resist) :hide:

[swathdiver]

You can still take a side, I didn't say you'd have to grab your musket! :knuppel:

[John81]

The poll is somewhat skewed because the Loyalists considered themselves to be patriots.

[JerryNumbers]

Hard for me to answer too. I'm trying as best as I can to be loyal to my Lord & Savior. My loyalty is 1st to Him. Plus I have notice that some claim, or at least the seem to claim, that no one can be a good Christian unless 1st their a good American, loyal to this United States no matter what stand they may take & or what this country might do, backing them up never questioning them.

[Covenanter]

Hard for me to answer too. I'm trying as best as I can to be loyal to my Lord & Savior. My loyalty is 1st to Him. Plus I have notice that some claim, or at least the seem to claim, that no one can be a good Christian unless 1st their a good American, loyal to this United States no matter what stand they may take & or what this country might do, backing them up never questioning them.

Good point. Bear in mind that many of the English-speaking settlers had been forced out of England by repressive governments, so there was no reason to be loyal to a country that they had had to leave, to live in peace from religious oppression. Either way, it was bad news for both native Americans & slaves. What was achieved peacefully by the British parliament had to be fought for in America 50 years later.

[John81]

Don't forget Christians are called upon to be in obedience to those in authority over them. This applies whether or not we like the government, the king/president, or their policies. Christians are called upon to be subject to them, unless they order us to violate the Word of God, to pray for them and trust God.

We can see examples of this rightly displayed in Scripture, such as in the life of Daniel and the Apostles.

[swathdiver]

Don't forget Christians are called upon to be in obedience to those in authority over them.

Romans 13 applies to governments who fear God. When the government does things in opposition to God, we are to obey God rather than men, right?

What are some examples in the OT of un-Godly governments being overthrown by Godly ones?

I contend as our Founders did in the Declaration that there is Biblical authority to start over and throw them off. Edited September 4, 2011 by swathdiver

[John81]

Romans 13 applies to governments who fear God. When the government does things in opposition to God, we are to obey God rather than men, right?

What are some examples in the OT of un-Godly governments being overthrown by Godly ones?

I contend as our Founder did in the Declaration that we have Biblical authority to throw off this government and start over.

Where does it say in Scripture to only be subject to governments that fear God? Paul was subject unto Rome yet Rome was a very ungodly government.

Scripture does not tell Christians to fight for anything on this earth. Scripture tells Christians to live for Christ in all circumstances and at all times. The only time a Christian is told to not obey the authority over them is when that authority specifically orders them to disobey God. In such a situation the Christian is to continue obeying God, but there is no call for general rebellion or to disobey the authority in any other area.

Just as Catholicism has always entangled itself in the affairs of government rather than being about the things of God, many professing Christians seek to do the same today.

What is more powerful, a group of Christians armed to the teeth attacking the government God has put over them or a group of Christians in continual, fervent prayer for that government?

[blossom]

I'm Australian we've never had civil war and don't want one.

[John81]

I'm Australian we've never had civil war and don't want one.

We haven't either but one may come someday. This is about the time of the American Revolution.

[John81]

Second Timothy 2:3, 4

Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

We haven't either but one may come someday. This is about the time of the American Revolution.

True:

A "civil war" is where a group of citizens of a country seek to take control of that country (by force) from the existing government.
Neither the war in the late 1700's nor the one in the mid 1800's fit the definition of a civil war or civil uprising.

.Both properly fall in the category of a war for independence (one successful, one unsuccessful) where a portion of a country does not attack it's government, but instead, petitions and airs it grievances concerning alleged violation of the governmental law by said body and declares its separate sovereignty

Rarely does the original nation respond in capitulation to forfeiture of territory (although the Britian did so with Canada and Australia - perhaps [with Canada] due to the great cost of man and material in the battles (1770's and again in the early 1800's) against the U.S. and [with Australia] due to the different attitude concerning losing just a penal colony?), but will instead seek to force recapture and punishment of its suceeding wards (as happened in the aforementioned entities with different outcomes). Edited September 4, 2011 by OLD fashioned

[JerryNumbers]

Romans 13 applies to governments who fear God. When the government does things in opposition to God, we are to obey God rather than men, right?

What are some examples in the OT of un-Godly governments being overthrown by Godly ones?

I contend as our Founder did in the Declaration that we have Biblical authority to throw off this government and start over.

Jas 4:1 ¶ From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

Really! From whence comes wars? Of course the answer is in the above verse.

I might add, in Jesus' days they were under an evil goverment, yet I read no teaching whatsoever about overthrowing it, but I do read that we are to pray that things go well with our leaders so that we can live a peaceful life. If you try to overthrow your government, there is nothing peaceful about that.

[JerryNumbers]

True:

A "civil war" is where a group of citizens of a country seek to take control of that country (by force) from the existing government.
Neither the war in the late 1700's nor the one in the mid 1800's fit the definition of a civil war or civil uprising.

.Both properly fall in the category of a war for independence (one successful, one unsuccessful) where a portion of a country does not attack it's government, but instead, petitions and airs it grievances concerning alleged violation of the governmental law by said body and declares its separate sovereignty

Rarely does the original nation respond in capitulation to forfeiture of territory (although the Britian did so with Canada and Australia - perhaps [with Canada] due to the great cost of man and material in the battles (1770's and again in the early 1800's) against the U.S. and [with Australia] due to the different attitude concerning losing just a penal colony?), but will instead seek to force recapture and punishment of its suceeding wards (as happened in the aforementioned entities with different outcomes).

No, war, even civil war. is all about power, greed, lust, and its not godly.