How strongly would you try to dissuade a 17-year old from getting an eyebrow barbell?

[farouk]

LuAnne could have cited Scripture but what she put forth was based upon biblical principle. Scripture declares clearly that parents are to be obeyed by their children. If ones children are living under the roof of the parents they are to obey their parents.

Scripture is also clear it's the parents duty to raise their children right. That doesn't include telling them to do something the parent says not to do, or that is wrong or that is a sin, in a "more safe" manner.

Flirting with the world and embracing the world is sin.

John81:

As previously mentioned, the qualification is 'if there isn't a clear moral and spiritual issue at stake'.

First of all, then, this would need to be established.

[farouk]

pictures of me with ... my earring...

PS: Auburn88:

Well, exactly; in some ways, it's a bit hard to be too critical with the next generation if we once wore that kind of thing.

[John81]

PS: Auburn88:

Well, exactly; in some ways, it's a bit hard to be too critical with the next generation if we once wore that kind of thing.

We don't need to be critical, we need to guide them in the ways of the Word rather than the ways of the world.

[farouk]

We don't need to be critical, we need to guide them in the ways of the Word rather than the ways of the world.

You know, I agree with that statement.

I would also be interested to know chapter and verse where earrings are specifically opposed in Scripture.

[Annie]

I guess my question for my 17 year old would be this: "Why do you want to get an eyebrow barbell?" And I think that, even before it would get to the point of my child wanting an eyebrow barbell, there would have had to be a disconnect somewhere, since no one we know has an eyebrow barbell, and I can't imagine that my kids would ever think it's cool or looks good to have one. To us, it's like tongue piercing...looks uncomfortable, and has no purpose--doesn't enhance appearance, but just looks weird and draws attention to itself.

[farouk]

I guess my question for my 17 year old would be this: "Why do you want to get an eyebrow barbell?" And I think that, even before it would get to the point of my child wanting an eyebrow barbell, there would have had to be a disconnect somewhere, since no one we know has an eyebrow barbell, and I can't imagine that my kids would ever think it's cool or looks good to have one. To us, it's like tongue piercing...looks uncomfortable, and has no purpose--doesn't enhance appearance, but just looks weird and draws attention to itself.

Annie:

Ty. Interesting comments. I can see where you are coming from if you guys don't know or see young ppl with them.

Seems like for lots of young ppl, it's a bit like a cartilage earring, sort of thing.

'Why do you want it?' may be a reasonable question. Then, again, why do you want your ears pierced? is a similar question. Or maybe rather than an eyebrow barbell, better to say, preferable to stick to ear piercings?

:unsure:

[Annie]

Annie:

Ty. Interesting comments. I can see where you are coming from if you guys don't know or see young ppl with them.

Seems like for lots of young ppl, it's a bit like a cartilage earring, sort of thing.

'Why do you want it?' may be a reasonable question. Then, again, why do you want your ears pierced? is a similar question.

Sure...but getting ears pierced (on a girl) doesn't look weird or draw attention to itself; it's not even in the same ball park as an eyebrow/tongue/cheek/nose piercing. Now, if my son wanted to get his ear(s) pierced, I'd know that there had been a similar disconnect, since no man that we know has his ear(s) pierced (except maybe the thugs that pass for NBA players and rappers and pop stars...and the "normal guys" stuck in the '80s or going through mid-life crises...but honestly, we don't know anyone personally who has his ear(s) pierced, so it's not even on our radar).

[farouk]

Sure...but getting ears pierced (on a girl) doesn't look weird or draw attention to itself; it's not even in the same ball park as an eyebrow/tongue/cheek/nose piercing. Now, if my son wanted to get his ear(s) pierced, I'd know that there had been a similar disconnect, since no man that we know has his ear(s) pierced (except maybe the thugs that pass for NBA players and rappers and pop stars...and the "normal guys" stuck in the '80s or going through mid-life crises...but honestly, we don't know anyone personally who has his ear(s) pierced, so it's not even on our radar).

Annie:

Appreciate your thoughts.

It might be a regional thing, too. A while back boys were playing football in the street, and all of them happened to have earrings in both ears, not that it's necessarily even worth the point of trying to notice this, if you don't happen to notice.

Like I mentioned earlier, I guess for those of us that wore them ourselves once, it's a bit more hard to be against them for the next generation, at least, as long as there isn't any clear spiritual or moral transgression.

Maybe concentrating on earrings is better than the eyebrow thing.

Whatever happens, someone somewhere is bound to be critical, but this is inevitable, I guess.

Blessings.

[Annie]

Annie:

Appreciate your thoughts.

It might be a regional thing, too. A while back boys were playing football in the street, and all of them happened to have earrings in both ears, not that it's necessarily even worth the point of trying to notice this, if you don't happen to notice.

Like I mentioned earlier, I guess for those of us that wore them ourselves once, it's a bit more hard to be against them for the next generation, at least, as long as there isn't any clear spiritual or moral transgression.

Maybe concentrating on earrings is better than the eyebrow thing.

Whatever happens, someone somewhere is bound to be critical, but this is inevitable, I guess.

Blessings.

Right...not surprised about the football guys wearing earrings...just saying that we don't know anyone personally who wears them. That's the reason I'd ask my son the question, "Why do you want earrings?" We aren't raising him to desire to identify himself with any of the cultures in which guys wear earrings...not the "sports superstar" culture, nor the "showbiz" culture, nor the "status symbol" culture, nor the "hell's angels" culture, nor the "bling" culture, nor the "rockstar" culture, nor the "self-mutilation is cool" culture. We aren't interested in what any of these cultures have to offer, and if my son were to express interest in them, I'd be concerned.

I'm not being critical...just thinking critically. There's a difference, you know. :) Edited July 25, 2011 by Annie

[farouk]

Right...not surprised about the football guys wearing earrings...just saying that we don't know anyone personally who wears them. That's the reason I'd ask my son the question, "Why do you want earrings?" We aren't raising him to desire to identify himself with any of the cultures in which guys wear earrings...not the "sports superstar" culture, nor the "showbiz" culture, nor the "status symbol" culture, nor the "hell's angels" culture, nor the "bling" culture, nor the "rockstar" culture, nor the "self-mutilation is cool" culture. We aren't interested in what any of these cultures have to offer, and if my son were to express interest in them, I'd be concerned.

Annie:

Appreciate it. I'll have to think about it. Blessings.

[Annie]

Meant to add...I don't think of body piercing (or ear piercing on guys) as a "moral transgression," and I don't know anyone else who does, either. One transgression which could possibly be committed in this scenario is faulty motivation. That's why the first question I'd ask would be, "Why do you want to do this?" The answer goes deeper than just, "Aw, Mom, 'cause it's cool!"

Also wanted to comment on the first part of this statement:

Like I mentioned earlier, I guess for those of us that wore them ourselves once, it's a bit more hard to be against them for the next generation, at least, as long as there isn't any clear spiritual or moral transgression.

There are a lot of things I did as a kid/teen that I wouldn't allow my kids to do. The fact that I exhibited certain behaviors/attitudes does not make those behaviors/attitudes wise or best, and they understand that. So, they don't even try to play that card. We do talk a lot, and I'm glad we have an open relationship like that.

[farouk]

Meant to add...I don't think of body piercing (or ear piercing on guys) as a "moral transgression," and I don't know anyone else who does, either. One transgression which could possibly be committed in this scenario is faulty motivation. That's why the first question I'd ask would be, "Why do you want to do this?" The answer goes deeper than just, "Aw, Mom, 'cause it's cool!"

Also wanted to comment on the first part of this statement:

There are a lot of things I did as a kid/teen that I wouldn't allow my kids to do. The fact that I exhibited certain behaviors/attitudes does not make those behaviors/attitudes wise or best, and they understand that. So, they don't even try to play that card. We do talk a lot, and I'm glad we have an open relationship like that.

Annie:

Sounds great that you have that open interaction.

Appreciate you saying that you don't see guys' ear piercing as a moral transgression. Seems to me that it's not too different from a teen girl wanting double piercings; I guess some would see the eyebrow thing in a similar context, too, but I don't know.



PS: re. the 'self-mutilation' thing, I wouldn't classify young men's ear piercing as self-mutilation any more than young women's ear piercing.


(If all this makes any sense?)

Blessings.

[John81]

There is a moral transgression on several levels. Among those the commands for men and women to abstain from that which pertains to the other; another is the command to be separate from the world; to avoid the appearance of evil; to deny ourselves for the sake of serving Christ; etc...

It also doesn't matter what wrong or sin we may have committed in the past, it's still our duty to properly instruct our children and insist they do right.

I've known parents who have allowed their children to get drunk, do drugs and sleep around from early teen years because they said they couldn't tell their children "no" since they had done those things when they were younger. A totally unsound excuse for neglecting their parental duties.

[Annie]

Annie:

Sounds great that you have that open interaction.

Appreciate you saying that you don't see guys' ear piercing as a moral transgression. Seems to me that it's not too different from a teen girl wanting double piercings; I guess some would see the eyebrow thing in a similar context, too, but I don't know.



PS: re. the 'self-mutilation' thing, I wouldn't classify young men's ear piercing as self-mutilation any more than young women's ear piercing.


(If all this makes any sense?)

Blessings.

To clarify, I was talking about the culture of self-mutilation as just one example of a culture my son might want to identify with: the guys that wear studs, starting with small ones, and gradually placing larger and larger ones in to make the hole bigger...grotesque and pointless.

I personally think a guy wearing earrings is a lot different than a girl wanting double piercings, because of the cultural context. I can't think of a single reason my son would come up with that wouldn't have to do with a culture that we'd want to avoid identification with. Earrings on guys aren't "beautiful" like they are on girls...Guys wear earrings for different reasons than girls do, and none of those reasons, as far as I can tell, are reflective of mature Christian manhood. I'm not knocking any guy who wears earrings; I'd be interested in hearing why you might think it's a good idea for a guy to wear earrings. Maybe I'm missing something. (?) What do you think?

[Annie]

There is a moral transgression on several levels. Among those the commands for men and women to abstain from that which pertains to the other; another is the command to be separate from the world; to avoid the appearance of evil; to deny ourselves for the sake of serving Christ; etc...

John, would you say that men wear earrings for the same reasons as women do? I don't think so...the guys who I see wearing earrings have an (over)abundance of testosterone, and the earrings aren't worn for the sake of looking like women. (And the earrings they wear are not the same kind of earrings as women wear; they are distinctive.) So, I really don't think the "gender distinction" argument holds much water. (There might have been a time when it did, though.)

As far as "avoiding the appearance of evil," I think that is also a weak argument in this case. Earrings are evil?

Your other two arguments come much closer to the mark, I think.