The fallacy of focusing upon the "10/40 Window"

[brosmith]

There is nothing wrong, unspiritual, unorthodox, unscriptural, etc. about "Faith Promise" giving for missions. You get alone with God (not the members of this board). Then ask God what He would have you give for missions AND ask God to provide that ammount for you to give during the year.

Here is one verse that speaks loud and clear against "Faith Promise":

2 Corinthians 8:12 - "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."

Every example of giving in the Bible tells us that people gave out of what they already had and not out of what they were expecting to receive. "Faith Promise" is another con game that independent Baptists have been duped to believe in. It is totally unscriptural and it is not built on faith. "Faith Promise" is built on deceit and wishful thinking.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Here is one verse that speaks loud and clear against "Faith Promise":

2 Corinthians 8:12 - "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."

Every example of giving in the Bible tells us that people gave out of what they already had and not out of what they were expecting to receive. "Faith Promise" is another con game that independent Baptists have been duped to believe in. It is totally unscriptural and it is not built on faith. "Faith Promise" is built on deceit and wishful thinking.

Now, that'll preach!

[John81]

Here is one verse that speaks loud and clear against "Faith Promise":

2 Corinthians 8:12 - "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."

Every example of giving in the Bible tells us that people gave out of what they already had and not out of what they were expecting to receive. "Faith Promise" is another con game that independent Baptists have been duped to believe in. It is totally unscriptural and it is not built on faith. "Faith Promise" is built on deceit and wishful thinking.

Yes, and most of those I've encountered that use "Faith Promise" don't simply ask folks to ask God how much they should give and then tell them what He said; they encourage folks to promise large amounts and then to "trust God" to provide them the "extra" money so they can keep their promise.

Whatever happened to the biblical concept of sacrificing for the kingdom of God? The widow gave her two mites because she believed the sacrifice was worth it. Today most professing Christians are unwilling to even consider true sacrifice. They only want to give out of their excess. If God doesn't provide them with "excess", (which they often define as money above and beyond what they need for necessities, vacations, a long list of wants) then they feel no obligation to give and then wrongly proclaim they "can't" give.

Scripture says we are to give of what we have and to willingly and cheerfully give sacrificially.

[Guest]

Here is one verse that speaks loud and clear against "Faith Promise":

2 Corinthians 8:12 - "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."

Every example of giving in the Bible tells us that people gave out of what they already had and not out of what they were expecting to receive. "Faith Promise" is another con game that independent Baptists have been duped to believe in. It is totally unscriptural and it is not built on faith. "Faith Promise" is built on deceit and wishful thinking.

Since you bring it up, lets discuss it in context.
2 Corinthians 8:1-12
1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;
4 Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.
5 And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God.
6 Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.
9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
10 And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago.
11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
also,
13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

The Macedonians gave sacrificially and were blessed by God for it. Paul wanted the Corinthian church to share in this same blessing of God and sent Titus. Now all that is required is that you have to give but, the greater blessings of God are for those who give what they have not. Where is the scripture which tells you how much to give to the propagation of the gospel? What is the "sincerity of your love?"

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

[Guest]

Yes, and most of those I've encountered that use "Faith Promise" don't simply ask folks to ask God how much they should give and then tell them what He said; they encourage folks to promise large amounts and then to "trust God" to provide them the "extra" money so they can keep their promise.

I don't know about the preachers you've been listening to but, I've never heard it this way in IFB or IB churches I've attended.

[brosmith]

... the greater blessings of God are for those who give what they have not.

That statement cannot be backed up by scripture nor by common sense. It is the lie that keeps God's people in bondage to the "Faith Promise" system. It is deceitful and wicked to tell God's people that they will receive "the greater blessings of God" when they promise to give something that they do not already have.

Consider this: If I have $100 to my name and the Lord lays it upon my heart to give $20 to missions then God expects me to take it out of the $100 that I already have, which leaves me with $80. "Faith Promise" teaches me to look to God to supply the $20 (in some miraculous way) and then after he gives me the $20 then I give that to missions.

God does love the cheerful giver. But it is the one who willingly and sacrificially gives out of what he already has and then depends upon God to supply his needs. This is true faith giving and is what brings God's greatest blessings. Edited May 24, 2011 by brosmith

[Captain Claptrap]

Here is one verse that speaks loud and clear against "Faith Promise":

2 Corinthians 8:12 - "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."

Every example of giving in the Bible tells us that people gave out of what they already had and not out of what they were expecting to receive. "Faith Promise" is another con game that independent Baptists have been duped to believe in. It is totally unscriptural and it is not built on faith. "Faith Promise" is built on deceit and wishful thinking.

That verse does not speak against it. The sense is that a man isn't required to give more than he has. Just look at the verse prior and you'll see you are wrong: "as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have." Sounds to me like he's saying, "good plan, now deliver."

I really couldn't care less whether Faith Promise comes or goes. It is man-made. But I can't say it is wrong.

[Pastor Matt]

I don't know about the preachers you've been listening to but, I've never heard it this way in IFB or IB churches I've attended.

Same here, and I have been to an awful lot of IFB churches. I'm not saying they do not do it, but I never heard it in while I was in there. I'm with Captain Claptrap on this one, I can take it or leave it.
If the Lord leads members to give certain amount, then listen to God and not man. I've only heard Faith Promised presented that way. God tells you what to give and you promise God you will listen to Him. Promising to God that you will listen to him is always a good thing. I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Sunday School is man made too, but I have no problem with it if it is done properly.

[HappyChristian]

God tells you what to give and you promise God you will listen to Him. Promising to God that you will listen to him is always a good thing. I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bath water.

That's what our preacher teaches (find out what God wants you to give, and do it).

[Pastor Matt]

I just realized the topic of this thread. Let's keep this on "10/40 Window". :icon_mrgreen: