What is hell?

[betteroffdead]

The Word of God says what it says. When there is no reason not to, we should take what the Word says literally. There is no point to argue this.

How is a literal meaning always an accurate meaning?

[JerryNumbers]

But not for all eternity.



Then why am I supposed to fear God, who can destroy it?

Your not interested in God's truth, your only interest is in spreading your lies and or your a troll trying to aggravate everyone. For your questions have already been answered more than once.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

So you want the wicked to suffer eternal torment. This means you are not a Christian because you are willfully disobeying what Jesus Christ has told you to do:

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

Subjecting someone to eternal torment is not an act of love.

A Christian, by very definition of the word, is a Christ follower. Christ's will is that all that die in sin suffer in everlasting hell. That is why I am quick to share the gospel with the living unrepentant. You on the other hand are fighting against the will of God in this very thread.

[betteroffdead]

A Christian, by very definition of the word, is a Christ follower. Christ's will is that all that die in sin suffer in everlasting hell. That is why I am quick to share the gospel with the living unrepentant. You on the other hand are fighting against the will of God in this very thread.

If you were a legitimate Christian, wouldn’t you want all sinners to come to repentance? Instead you seem to relish their pain and suffering.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

If you were a legitimate Christian, wouldn’t you want all sinners to come to repentance? Instead you seem to relish their pain and suffering.

It is a good thing for me then that God decides who is a Christian and not you. By the way, I never said I relish in their pain and suffering. Never make that false claim again.

[JerryNumbers]

A Christian, by very definition of the word, is a Christ follower. Christ's will is that all that die in sin suffer in everlasting hell. That is why I am quick to share the gospel with the living unrepentant. You on the other hand are fighting against the will of God in this very thread.

Your 100% wrong on that statement in bold letter.I hope you accident wrote that out wrong.

If you believe that, you know not Christ. Christ was the one who died on the cross paying for our sins, thus giving us the gift of salvation so that we do not have to pay for our own sins.

If Christ wanted it as you stated, he would never died on the cross for our sins, he would simply allowed us to die in our sins.

Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

No, Christ proved His love for us, proved that He did not want to see anyone suffer in hell, He gave His life so that we could have abundant life.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

No where within the pages of the Bible can you prove what you said, only the opposite can be proved. No great love is there than a man laying His life donw for His friends, and that's exactly what Jesus did.

[betteroffdead]

Your 100% wrong on that statement in bold letter.I hope you accident wrote that out wrong.

If you believe that, you know not Christ. Christ was the one who died on the cross paying for our sins, thus giving us the gift of salvation so that we do not have to pay for our own sins.

If Christ wanted it as you stated, he would never died on the cross for our sins, he would simply allowed us to die in our sins.

Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

No, Christ proved His love for us, proved that He did not want to see anyone suffer in hell, He gave His life so that we could have abundant life.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

No where within the pages of the Bible can you prove what you said, only the opposite can be proved. No great love is there than a man laying His life donw for His friends, and that's exactly what Jesus did.

I rest my case. Mdog takes personal pleasure in the suffering of others. No Christian does this. The purpose of the doctrine of eternal torment for sinners serves Satan’s purpose by putting a veneer of righteousness on false Christians’ desire to seek revenge on their enemies.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

Your 100% wrong on that statement in bold letter.I hope you accident wrote that out wrong.

I mean it. It was no mistake. God loves the world and I believe world means everyone, not just the elect. This is what the Bible teaches. I believe God wishes that none would perish. This is what the Bible teaches. The Bible also teaches that God will cast the unrepentant into hell fire.For they have not been washed white by the blood of Jesus. It would be against his just and holy nature if he allowed sinners into Heaven. So at the same time it is his final will. I firmly believe this to be the Biblical truth. Another way to think about it, and I admit if falls short, is that of a human judge. A judge that sentences a serial killer to death. The judge may be sad about the situation but it is his will to send him to his death.

Revelation 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[MatthewDiscipleOfGod]

I rest my case. Mdog takes personal pleasure in the suffering of others. No Christian does this. The purpose of the doctrine of eternal torment for sinners serves Satan’s purpose by putting a veneer of righteousness on false Christians’ desire to seek revenge on their enemies.

Since you resort to calling me "Mdog", implying that I'm not a Christian and deny the truth presented I will ignore future posts you have in this thread and possibly others. I am not going to waste me time with one who has hardened his heart to the truth.

[betteroffdead]

I mean it. It was no mistake. God loves the world and I believe world means everyone, not just the elect. This is what the Bible teaches. I believe God wishes that none would perish. This is what the Bible teaches. The Bible also teaches that God will cast the unrepentant into hell fire.For they have not been washed white by the blood of Jesus. It would be against his just and holy nature if he allowed sinners into Heaven. So at the same time it is his final will. I firmly believe this to be the Biblical truth. Another way to think about it, and I admit if falls short, is that of a human judge. A judge that sentences a serial killer to death. The judge may be sad about the situation but it is his will to send him to his death.

Revelation 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

In post #33 you point blank said, “Christ's will is that all that die in sin suffer in everlasting hell.”

Christ’s will is that He be “longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance”, II Peter 3:9.

This won’t happen as some shall perish because God is not going to force anyone to serve Him. So it is inevitable that some shall perish because they won’t repent. But this inevitable punishment is not something the Lord does lightly or with a gladsome heart- as you would have us believe.

[betteroffdead]

Since you resort to calling me "Mdog",

I was merely trying to save my arthritic arms a little bit of typing. You really should get over that high and mighty opinion you have of yourself. It isn’t fitting for someone trying to claim they are a Christian.

implying that I'm not a Christian

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying it straight out in hopes that you will be prevented from leading others astray.

I will ignore future posts

I wish you had thought of this sooner.

[Guest]

I cannot find the website where I learned of the possible mistranslation. I don’t remember exactly what search terms I had put into Google. But here are some other websites that document how the Greek word aion may have been mistranslated in the AKJ:

http://www.sabbathfellowship.org/biblestudies/erwingane/biblestudy_gane_immortaltxt.htm

“In speaking of the punishment of the wicked, both Jesus and Paul used the adjective ‘eternal’ or ‘everlasting.’ The Greek adjective used in the New Testament is aionios. This adjective and its corresponding noun aion (eternity), do not necessarily mean never ending. Often they refer to a period of limited duration. For example, this present ‘world’ or ‘age’ that is coming to an end is a number of times spoken of as this aion (Matt. 13:39; Eph. 1:21; 2 Tim. 4:10; 1 Cor. 2:7).”

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/RA/k/480/Eternal-Torment.htm

“If we understand ‘they will be tormented’ to include the Beast and the False Prophet, we must explain the phrase ‘forever and ever’ (eis tous aionas ton aionon). Literally, this means ‘to the ages of the ages,’ and would seem to imply perpetuity. However, we must be careful with the word aion. Its range of meaning runs from ‘a space or period of time’ to ‘a lifetime’ to ‘an age’ to ‘eternity.’ As in all such cases, the context must give the sense.”


http://www.helltruth.com/q-a/no-eternal-fire-but-yes-eternal-life.aspx

“The words translated ‘everlasting’ and ‘forever’ do not necessarily mean never ending. These terms, when found in the New Testament, come from the Greek noun aion, or from the adjective aionios derived from this noun. When we examine various Scripture texts containing aion, we discover at once how impossible it would be to attempt to make this Greek root always mean an endless period. We read in Matthew 13:39 and elsewhere of ‘the end of the world [aion].’ How could there be an ‘end’ to something if it where endless?”

Whether or not you translate aionios as everlasting/eternal when speaking of hellfire depends on what your theology is. If your theology is wrong, your translation will be wrong because you want your Bible to reflect your theology.

But a theology that calls for everlasting hellfire for an immortal soul defies the rest of the Bible:


I Timothy 6:13-16 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

The Bible says that only God is immortal.

Let's slow down a little, one thing at a time...
I went to Strongs and I'm willing to except the translators of the KJV and Strong as experts.
You must agree their credentials attest to their expertise and in any court of law in the U.S. the judge would call them experts.
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios pronounced (ahee-o'-nee-os)
From G165 ; perpetual (also used of past {time} or past and future as well): - {eternal} for {ever} {everlasting} world (began).
G165
αἰών
aiōn pronounced (ahee-ohn')
From the same as G104 ; properly an age ; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world ; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - {age} {course} {eternal} (for) ever ({-more}) {[n-]ever} (beginning of {the} while the) world ({began} without end). Compare G5550 .
G104
ἀεί
aei pronounced (ah-eye')
From an obsolete primary noun (apparently meaning continued duration ); ever ; by qualification regularly ; by implication earnestly: - {always} ever.

It could very well be an age. Therefore we have to determine what that age is. This age when persons will either enter into heaven or suffer eternal separation from God is the reign of Christ. We know that Christ's final reign is for ever and their is no end of it. We cannot know the end because it is infinite and no one can know infinity. Our minds don’t have the ability to understand a place without time. So, I'm willing to give you the benefit of doubt and say it may be an "age" but, this age is eternal as verified by Isaiah 9:7.

Isaiah 9:7 "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

Two things in particular we can see from Isa. 9:7 "his government and peace there shall be no end" and "upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever." We see here that "no end" and "for ever" reference the same thing, the government/kingdom of Jesus Christ.
ever
H5769
עלם עולם
‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
{o-lawm'} o-lawm'
From H5956 ; properly {concealed} that {is} the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or {future}) that {is} (practically) eternity ; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always : - always ({-s}) ancient ({time}) any {more} {continuance} {eternal} ({for} [n-]) ever ({-lasting} {-more} of {old}) {lasting} long ({time}) (of) old ({time}) {perpetual} at any {time} (beginning of the) world (+ without end).
no endH7093
קץ
qêts
kates
Contracted from H7112 ; an extremity ; adverbially (with prepositional prefix) after: - + {after} (utmost) {border} {end} [in-] {finite} X process.
H7112
קצץ
qâtsats
kaw-tsats'
A primitive root; to chop off (literally or figuratively): - cut ({asunder} in {pieces} in {sunder} {off}) X utmost.

Let's be clear and reasonable; eternal, eternity, no end, everlasting, and for ever, are way above our pay grade for comprehension. We could bandy eternity for a good long time. We know from the author’s expertise and testimony they are not leading us astray. We know Christ's reign will be forever, no end to it, and infinite. These are facts we have derived from very close examination. When will you stop allowing these attempts at distraction to keep you from receiving Christ as Lord and His word as truth? You most likely have an awareness that something is struggling to prevent you from accepting God's grace. Something never struggles against nothing. Something wants to delay you until your time is up, that is, your dead or Jesus Christ returns; when all opportunity for salvation is finished.

Unless you’re Jewish then you and I are gentiles and if we trust Christ we won’t have to concern ourselves with this everlasting age of torment.

Romans 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Here is where your standing is with regard to the reign of Christ…

Luke 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

You’re hoping, as many have in the past, there is some other way or hope outside of Jesus Christ, there is not another way.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

P.S.
The underlying anger in your words is evident. Don’t allow it to continue and reject God’s call to you.



Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind,

The fact that you call into question God’s love demonstrates you don’t have it. God is after all God and who are we to question Him. Again, God presents you with an opportunity to receive His grace, His way. God does love you and Jesus Christ, very God, died to provide you life. This is God’s will for you but, it must be His way. Adversity to God is sin.

God is love.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Sin and it’s result.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God’s plan to redeem us.
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Note: Jesus Christ died for us! Jesus' death paid the price for our sins. Jesus' resurrection proves that God accepted Jesus' death as the payment for our sins.

Romans 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Note: Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, all we have to do is believe in Him, trusting His death as the payment for our sins - and we will be saved! Because of our Lord Jesus Christ’s resurrection from death, witnessed by so many, we have that assurance he will keep his promise of eternal life for us.

Result of accepting God’s plan.
Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Note: Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, we will never be condemned for our sins. Because Christ was raised from the dead, we have this precious promise of God.

Romans 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. Edited March 20, 2011 by 1Tim115

[Seth Doty]

betteroffdead,

Since you think you have the answer already anyway why ask such questions? I think you pegged your own intentions, position, and sincerity in about two or three posts. We aren't here to argue with militant anti-christians trying to pretend like they have real questions. It is a waste of time since they have no desire for understanding or heart for the truth.


"Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?"
"Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."



I always think of this Psalm when I meet would be attackers of Christianity and the Truth. It is so futile to beat your head against the Rock.

Psalms 2:1-12
"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."


If you come to God with a different heart attitude you might learn something, but as things stand your just going to go on convincing yourself your right when in reality your dead wrong and futilely fighting God in many areas.

Edited March 20, 2011 by Seth-Doty

[betteroffdead]

I went to Strongs and I'm willing to except the translators of the KJV and Strong as experts.
You must agree their credentials attest to their expertise and in any court of law in the U.S. the judge would call them experts.

So you are willing to accept men as experts in matters pertaining to God? Remember I Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Since Strong's only reports how words are used in the AKJ, if the AKJ mis-uses words then Strong's simply reiterates the AKJ's error.

[betteroffdead]

betteroffdead,

Since you think you have the answer already anyway why ask such questions?

I am not sure I have the answer now, and I certainly did not know the answer before I came here, otherwise I would not have come here.