Pope Exonerates Jews for Jesus' Death

[Guest]

He is not specifically named in Scripture, as almost all of the NT (including Rev.) was written before AD 70. He may be the high priest, ex-officio, who sat in judgment on the incarnate God setting his own authority above Jesus, & above the Law he was administering.

Mat 26:61 And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what [is it which] these witness against thee?
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Act 23:2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, [thou] whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?

1Jo 2:18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
.....
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Regarding Rev. 1:7, do you think Jews (which pierced him) are perpetually guilty & a yet future generation of Jews will be held to account for his rejection & crucifixion at his second coming?

I can't go with a maybe. Paul's exhortation in 2 Thessalonians 2 was because a maybe was introduced to them and caused error in the church and practice of faith. In 2.Thes. 2:8, Paul tells them again, this man will be there for Christ to destroy. I know Christ has not come again. Edited March 3, 2011 by 1Tim115

[John81]

Matthew 27:24, 25

27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

[Covenanter]

Matthew 27:24, 25

27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

That self-curse is cancelled by the Gospel.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

[HappyChristian]

The Jews who were present at the crucifixion are the ones who were responsible for His death as far as physically goes. Every person in the world is responsible as far as spiritually: Jesus died for the sins of mankind.

I think the history of the Jews shows that their taking on the responsibility of Christ's crucifixion has caused problems for them - physically. They are persecuted just about everywhere they go. They are also blessed of God materially before major persecution begins...

I have no love for the pope's beliefs and teachings, so am not in any way defending anything he says. But, one thing we need to remember is that Hitler used the accusation of the Jews being responsible for Christ's death as one of the reasons they needed to be exterminated.

The pope cannot absolve anyone of anything, as we all know. But, as trc said, we are all (from Adam to anyone currently alive) responsible in the end.

[Invicta]

Hitler was a catholic, and was probably put in power by the Pope's men, or at least aided in his rise to power. There are many photos available on line of bishops supporting Nazi rallies and some giving the Hitler salute. One priest was the commandant of a concentration camp.

[John81]

Hitler was a catholic, and was probably put in power by the Pope's men, or at least aided in his rise to power. There are many photos available on line of bishops supporting Nazi rallies and some giving the Hitler salute. One priest was the commandant of a concentration camp.

The RCC has a long history of siding with those they see as holding power. They also have a long history of hedging their bets, which can also be seen during WWII. Had Nazi Germany prevailed, the RCC would have touted their support of the Nazis, but because the Nazis fell, the RCC has attempted to hid their support of the Nazis and highlighted those in the RCC who worked against the Nazis, most often later in the war when it was looking less likely the Nazis would win.

[Covenanter]

Once the generation that rejected their Messiah, & refused to repent, suffered the wrath of God in AD 70, the word in the NT for the Jews is:

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

The Jews have a glorious future in & through Jesus Christ, a future shared with ALL believers regardless of ethnicity, in the NH&NE.

There is no suggestion in NT teaching that that future has anything to do with the territory of Israel/Palestine. Wherever they are on earth they are welcome by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 ¶ And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

[HappyChristian]

I know Hitler was confirmed in the Catholic church, but once he left home, he never attended again, although he remained a member til his death. He had the same ability to convince people that he was religious that many of the US POTUS' have had...

I agree, Invicta, that the RCC had its hands in Hitler's rise. There were many rank and file Catholics who risked their lives to rescue Jews. Of course, there were many actual Christians in Germany who ignored what was happening in the rise up of Aryanism (Hitler actually believed in an "Aryan" Christ...no Jewish Messiah for him!).

I can't remember 100% right now, but wasn't it the Jesuit arm (under the Black Pope) of the RCC that was actually behind Hitler?

Ahmadinijab would probably be a modern day Hitler if he could. He's definitely completely in favor (and has said as much) of wiping Israel off the map. It's almost amazing the amount of hatred that is so often directed at the Jewish people. I do believe part of that comes from the curse they took upon themselves when Christ was crucified, because, as I said, that curse was actually physical, because every human born is under the curse of sin.

(Covenanter - let's not bring the eschatology discussion over to this thread, okay? Thanks)

[Covenanter]

(Covenanter - let's not bring the eschatology discussion over to this thread, okay? Thanks)

Surely it is relevant to see what the Bible teaches about the Jews, both for the generation that rejected their Messiah, for those down the ages who have turned in faith to him, & for the present generation of unbelievers who many see as prophetically significant.

[HappyChristian]

Surely it is relevant to see what the Bible teaches about the Jews, both for the generation that rejected their Messiah, for those down the ages who have turned in faith to him, & for the present generation of unbelievers who many see as prophetically significant.

It isn't necessary to bring preterism in to this thread when there are 2 current threads on eschatology going...

[Invicta]

Pius XI made Hitler

The 'Mercure de France'24 of 15 January 1934 showed—and nobody contradicted it—that it was Pius XI who had "made" Hitler, for the latter, had the Zentrum not been broken up by the Pope, could not have come into power—or at least not by legal means. . . .

"By not leaving the German Zentrum enough time to re-form", writes this review, "Pius XI deliberately shattered the obstacle in Hitlers path—an obstacle which the latter could not have surmounted.
. . . Does the Vatican consider it made a political error in thus clearing
the way to power for Hitler? It would seem not. . . .

"How does the Church reconcile this policy with its doctrine? Hitlerism was condemned and remained condemned, but—as we have said—the Vatican distinguishes between Hitler's doctrine and the person of the Fuhrer. . . ."

It should be added that by virtue of this truly subtle distinguo worthy of Escobar, the bishops in Germany and, later, in Austria were able to flatter as they wished "the person of the Fiihrer" and to advise their flock to submit completely to his orders, however monstrous they might be.

To those who still believe in Hitler's anti-Christianity we suggest that they read the following words:
Gorlitz and Quint25 recall that "After the electoral victory, the 'National Government' inaugurated its activities with an official ceremony at the garrison church of Potsdam (12 March 1933)—an idea conceived by Hitler, who wanted to demonstrate by it the merging, as it were, of tradition and revolution. The Reichswehr and the police participated with units which had taken part in the national revolution: the SA, the SS and the Stahlhelm. The not- abilities of the conservative elements in Germany: the Crown Prince, Marshal von Mackensen, Prussian princes and many former generals were invited. . . . The meeting ended with a prayer of thanksgiving....

"On 1 May 1933, Hitler spoke . . . assuming a voice of almost religious gravity in exhorting the masses to fight together in order to be able to say at the supreme hour of their appearance before God: 'As you see, O Lord! we have changed. The German people is no longer a people of dishonour, of shame, of faithlessness. No Lord, the German people is again strong in the spirit of sacrifice. O Lord! We do not stray from Thee! Bless us in the battle we are fighting for our liberty and therefore for our race'.. .."

The Concordat which was soon to be signed was particularly advantageous for the Roman Catholic Church, as Pius XI was to stress with satisfaction; since it had been ready for a long time, it was soon signed. In fact, it merely ratified the deep understanding between conquering Germanism and papal imperialism—that politico-religious collusion which tended to give to Berlin the control of temporal matters in Europe, and to the Vatican the control of the spiritual sphere, and which was later to be so strikingly confirmed by events.

The Concordat with Hitler

Now, let us see what Joseph Rovan has to say. "The Imperial Concordat negotiated by Franz von Papen after Hitler's accession, fulfilled one of the dearest wishes of the German Catholics, one of the aims towards which the Holy See's policy had been directed for a hundred years. . . . The Pontifical Nuncio at Munich (Mgr. Pacelli) who, though accredited to the Bavarian Government, was in fact representing the Holy See in Germany as a whole, had undertaken a long-term task which after fifteen years ended in the Imperial Concordat. . . . Throughout this period he was negotiating at the Reich level and was preparing individual concordats. On more than one occasion ... the Reich Government, presided over by militant Catholics, joined him in the preparation of a general concordat, but internal resistance from Socialist and Liberal quarters, as well as the federalist interest of the Bavarian and Prussian Governments, put a stop to these attempts every time. . . .

"The Concordat gave the National Socialist Party, which practically everybody thought of as a usurper government, ij not indeed as a band of brigands, the prestige of an agreement with the most ancient of international powers. It was rather like an international certificate of respectability. . . .

"The Concordat agreed that the State should have the right of veto over episcopal nominations; moreover, the bishops had to swear allegiance to the Fuhrer.

"Right until the end of the war the Nazi state continued to pay most of its financial contributions that, under the Concordats, it had agreed to pay to the Church. ... It will be seen later that after 1945, the governmental party, C.D.U. (Chancellor Konrad Adenauer's Christian Democrat Party), confirmed in no uncertain fashion the validity of the Concordat concluded by Hitler."
Now let us see how Franz von Papen stresses the importance of the Concordat which he signed in Hitler's name:

"The unremitting battle for religious freedom that the Catholic Zentrum was fighting had the active support of the first Apostolic Nuncio in Germany, Mgr. Eugenio Pacelli, who is now Pius XII. No doubt it is centuries since a sovereign pontiff knew Germany and the Germans as well as does His Holiness. At first his task was a delicate one: indeed, he was accused of wishing to convert Prussia, an essentially Protestant country. . . . During the time when he was in Berlin, I had the honour from time to time of inviting him to my home, together with a few prominent conservatives and some figures who were eminent in the world of German Catholicism. . . .
"Not since the faraway days of the Reformation, had a Concordat
been concluded between the Vatican and the Reich. . . ..............

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Roman Church, the wet-nurse of Nazism

" 'Empire et Eglise' is a series of writings which was used in the building up of the Third Reich by the joint forces of the National Socialist State and Catholic Christianity. This collection is based on the conviction that there is no fundamental contradiction between today's national renaissance in the natural order of things and the supernatural life of the Church. Quite the contrary, the restoration of the political system seems to have its natural result in being achieved by the strength it draws from the deepest religious faith.

"'Entirely German and entirely Catholic, this is the way in which these writings seek to examine and encourage the relationship and co-operation between the Catholic Church and National Socialism and so point the way to a fruitful collaboration, such as is already to be seen in the basic fact that they have made a Concordat....

From The Vatican Against Europe by Edmond Paris
You can read it here http://www.scribd.com/doc/18468529/Paris-The-Vatican-Against-Europe-Suppressed-Role-of-Vatican-in-For-Men-Ting-Both-World-Wars-1964

[John81]

It should not be forgotten that Hitler's first choice for getting the Jews out of Europe was to help them move to English controlled Palestine. This is why so many Zionist Jews supported Hitler early on. England continually denied Jewish migration to Palestine, and this even after it became apparent Jews were suffering persecution in parts of Europe and such would likely get much worse.

[Invicta]

It should not be forgotten that Hitler's first choice for getting the Jews out of Europe was to help them move to English controlled Palestine. This is why so many Zionist Jews supported Hitler early on. England continually denied Jewish migration to Palestine, and this even after it became apparent Jews were suffering persecution in parts of Europe and such would likely get much worse.

Also most countries including England refused to accept Jews from Europe. Although England did accept some children.

There was a case in our papers a couple of years ago, of a number of letters belonging to a jewish girl who had escaped to England from Germany. Some of them were concerning her fiancé, and there was doubut as to what happened to him and also to the girl. On on of the family reaseach sites, many tried to find what happened to both of them. It did not take the sleuths too long to discaover that he had escaped to the US. The girl was in the London area and had been in an area affected by the bombing and had moved house, then had been killed in another German bombing raid. The sleuths kept searching and found that the young man was still alive in the U.S. There was much animated discussion on whether he should be contacted and told about these letters and ask if he should have them.

I cannot remember the exact outcome but I believe someone tol the newspaper out him and they contacted him.