Paul...when and maybe where

[1Timothy115]

When was Paul caught up into third heaven and maybe the location? Thoughts?

I would to God that you didn't recite some authoritative source other than scripture...go look at the Bible and share what YOU find.

[Covenanter]

3 heavens?

3rd - God's dwelling is the highest heaven

2nd - above the created heavenly realm - the spiritual realm of angels, demons, war in heaven etc;

1st - the visible firmament - the heavens declare the glory of God

I suggest Paul is referring to his Damascus road encounter with Jesus, into the presence of Jesus in the highest heaven. I further suggest that others had a 3rd heaven experience:

the transfiguration;
Stephen (Acts 7);
John (Rev. 1 & 4);
Isaiah (6)
& others

[Wilchbla]

When was Paul caught up into third heaven and maybe the location? Thoughts?

I would to God that you didn't recite some authoritative source other than scripture...go look at the Bible and share what YOU find.

If by location you mean "where he was on earth when it happened" I would say in Iconium.

Acts 14

[19] And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
[20] Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe. Edited January 9, 2011 by Wilchbla

[1Timothy115]

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

This letter is thought by some to have been written about spring of A.D. 55. So, 55-14 years would be A.D. 41. Where would A.D. 41 (approx. time) place Paul because he writes "above fourteen years".

The stoning had never crossed my mind, interesting.

Edited January 9, 2011 by 1Tim115

[Covenanter]

Act 26:19 ¶ Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disOBedient unto the heavenly vision:

You need a strong case to argue against the Damascus road encounter with the risen Lord Jesus.

[1Timothy115]

Yes, I can see the Damascus road encounter as a strong possibility. Considering the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John and the similarity as your reference points out...
Act 26:19 ¶ Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disOBedient unto the heavenly vision:
...Jesus has performed miracles in short encounters with the blind, Saul would not be the only example of this.

However, Paul's time spent alone in the wilderness of Arabia is not unlike Moses in the wilderness when God spent much time with him. Is the following saying that Paul was in the Arabia wilderness alone with God for three years?

Galatians 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Galatians 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

I wonder what was occurring in the wilderness between God and Paul?

[Bro Jim]

I believe the Damascus Road encounter and the 3rd heaven are two different times, Paul spoke of the things he head on the Damascus road, in the other encounter he said he "heard unspeakable words, which is not lawful for man to utter." We know what he heard on on the road to Damascus. Out of body experience at Iconium, I don't think so either, he said "caught up". The time of his trip into Arab fits as for as time period is concerned.

[Wilchbla]

Yes, I can see the Damascus road encounter as a strong possibility. Considering the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John and the similarity as your reference points out...
Act 26:19 ¶ Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disOBedient unto the heavenly vision:
...Jesus has performed miracles in short encounters with the blind, Saul would not be the only example of this.

However, Paul's time spent alone in the wilderness of Arabia is not unlike Moses in the wilderness when God spent much time with him. Is the following saying that Paul was in the Arabia wilderness alone with God for three years?

Galatians 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Galatians 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

I wonder what was occurring in the wilderness between God and Paul?

Paul's time in the wilderness of Arabia could be another possible time. Especially since he was receiving the revelation of the "mystery" at that time.

[Wilchbla]

Out of body experience at Iconium, I don't think so either, he said "caught up".

John was "caught up" too but I don't think this meant he was PHYSICALLY caught up.

Revelation 4

[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

[2] And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

[Soj]

If by location you mean "where he was on earth when it happened" I would say in Iconium.

Acts 14

[19] And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
[20] Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.

I'd say the same. I think Paul actually died here and was caught up to the 3rd heaven, then God sent him back.

This account was real, but it is counterfeited in Zen Buddhism as "astral projection" where you send part of yourself out of your body to another place and then bring it back. Notice how Paul describes his experience in 2 Cori 12 in the third person, as if it happened to someone else. They say in Zen that is what it is like, when you OBtain Prajna (enlightenment), when you come back from the trip you can't say "it was me". It's not like that, it is like you are OBserving another person.

I wonder what was occurring in the wilderness between God and Paul?

Bible study & revelation at the feet of the risen Saviour?

[1Timothy115]

I'd say the same. I think Paul actually died here and was caught up to the 3rd heaven, then God sent him back.

This account was real, but it is counterfeited in Zen Buddhism as "astral projection" where you send part of yourself out of your body to another place and then bring it back. Notice how Paul describes his experience in 2 Cori 12 in the third person, as if it happened to someone else. They say in Zen that is what it is like, when you OBtain Prajna (enlightenment), when you come back from the trip you can't say "it was me". It's not like that, it is like you are OBserving another person.



Bible study & revelation at the feet of the risen Saviour?

Iconium
Of the possibilities of Paul's being caught up to 3rd heaven. This one would be the more difficult for me to reconcile. I would have to do some study and comparison on the other "caught up" occurrances; John (Rev.), Enoch (Ge., Heb.), and Elias...Elijah (2 Kings, Mt. 17:3) but then, there still remains accepting Paul was dead.

In the wilderness it would have been "scroll study" & revelation

[Anon]

Paul says only God knows if it was an in-body, or out-of-body, experience, per se.

He could not tell us if it was a vision or a true physical experience and OBviously God doesn't feel we need to know.

I do not think he died and was sent back. I think it was prOBably a vision where God allowed his spirit to view Heaven, similar to John in Revelation. John didn't die to write Revelation, so why would Paul.....

[Wilchbla]

I do not think he died and was sent back. I think it was prOBably a vision where God allowed his spirit to view Heaven, similar to John in Revelation. John didn't die to write Revelation, so why would Paul.....

It doesn't say he died but that they "supposed he was dead".

In any case it's all guesswork. Edited January 10, 2011 by Wilchbla

[Wilchbla]

I would have to do some study and comparison on the other "caught up" occurrances; John (Rev.), Enoch (Ge., Heb.), and Elias...Elijah (2 Kings, Mt. 17:3) but then, there still remains accepting Paul was dead.

The phrase "come up hither" occurs three times in the bible which is an interesting study.

1) Prov. 27:5-7: In the OT which speaks about being in the presence of a king and prince.

2) Rev. 4:1: Before the beginning of the tribulation.

3) Rev, 11:12:- At the end of the tribulation.

[Soj]

It doesn't say he died but that they "supposed he was dead".

That's correct, but I think this account fits better with Paul's "in the body" or "out of the body" experience than any of the others. Edited January 10, 2011 by Soj