95 Theses Against Dispensationalism

[LindaR]

I believe that John Hagee teaches a "Dual Covenant" theology....meaning that the Jews already have a covenant (Abrahamic) and don't need to be proselytized. IOW, they can get to heaven without Jesus Christ.

I'm glad that the lady who led me to the LORD didn't believe that false teaching. Jews need to be evangelized, the same as Gentiles do. The Apostle Paul, the great apostle to the Gentiles, went to "the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Romans 1:16) Praise God for born again Gentiles who love the Jews and take the gospel of salvation/eternal life to them!

[John81]

I believe that John Hagee teaches a "Dual Covenant" theology....meaning that the Jews already have a covenant (Abrahamic) and don't need to be proselytized. IOW, they can get to heaven without Jesus Christ.

I'm glad that the lady who led me to the LORD didn't believe that false teaching. Jews need to be evangelized, the same as Gentiles do. The Apostle Paul, the great apostle to the Gentiles, went to "the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Romans 1:16) Praise God for born again Gentiles who love the Jews and take the gospel of salvation/eternal life to them!

Yes, that's what Hagee has adopted, but he didn't come to this stance until he became very politically active and started working with Jewish groups.

Hagee is also a strong dispensationalist. I listened to a series of sermons he gave on this topic many years ago.

[Brother Rick]

Rick

Do you believe we should evangelise the Jews, or do you believe, like some christians, that we should not 'protelise' them?

We absolutely should try to win the Jews as well. The church I attend supports at least one missionary to Israel.

Just because some people misapply Scripture means we need dispensations? That really doesn't make sense. A plain reading of Scripture makes it very clear the prayer of Jabez was specific, just as was the words of Malichi regarding tithes. One doesn't need to divide the Bible into dispensations in order to see this.

You're hung up on the term "dispensations." It's extremely clear that there are different time periods and ages and the fact that God deals with people differently in those periods of time.

John 1:17, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

You have three distinct periods of time there, clearly demonstrated by Scripture.

It doesn't matter if you call them dispensations or not, but there are natural divisions in the Bible and we are commanded to study the Bible according to these patterns.

II Tim. 2:15, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

The primary method of studying Scripture is by dividing it. You can wrongly divide it, and you can rightly divide it. I think you are reactionary towards the term dispensations because of men like John Hagee that have wrongly divided it. As I've already said, rightly dividing doesn't just apply to ages, it also applies to judgments. We are not judged according to our works as they are at the Great White Throne Judgment, and yet many teach that we will wind up at that judgment and that salvation is by works. If one applies the principle of correctly dividing the Scripture they will understand that a Christian will be at the Judgment Seat of Christ, in which no one goes to Lake of Fire afterwards.

Anyways, if you want to receive it, great. If not, that's fine. But rightly dividing the word is a command of God to be approved before Him when it comes to Bible study, it's not a suggestion.

[2Tim215]

Question: Why do we have the "Old" Testament and the "New" Testament? The very words describe a difference in God's dealings with man - an "Old" covenant/age/dispensation and a "New" covenant/age/dispensation. Do we now say the KJV is wrong because it differentiates between the old and the new? The very fact that there is a difference between the two shows that God has dealt differently with man on two separate occasions. Are these the only times that God has done this? No, if we "rightly divide" then we see that this is not so. Having being confused by the "obvious" errors in the bible for years, it was only after being taught the doctrine of "dispensation" or "ages" that the "errors" become truths and the Word of God began to fit together as a whole.
IMHO ANYTHING and ANY DOCTRINE that takes away from God's grace, God's Word, causes confusion, sows dissent, does not edify the church, does not bring glory to God and caters to the world and the politics thereof is a lie and should be steered clear from!

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

[John81]

We absolutely should try to win the Jews as well. The church I attend supports at least one missionary to Israel.



You're hung up on the term "dispensations." It's extremely clear that there are different time periods and ages and the fact that God deals with people differently in those periods of time.

John 1:17, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

You have three distinct periods of time there, clearly demonstrated by Scripture.

It doesn't matter if you call them dispensations or not, but there are natural divisions in the Bible and we are commanded to study the Bible according to these patterns.

II Tim. 2:15, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

The primary method of studying Scripture is by dividing it. You can wrongly divide it, and you can rightly divide it. I think you are reactionary towards the term dispensations because of men like John Hagee that have wrongly divided it. As I've already said, rightly dividing doesn't just apply to ages, it also applies to judgments. We are not judged according to our works as they are at the Great White Throne Judgment, and yet many teach that we will wind up at that judgment and that salvation is by works. If one applies the principle of correctly dividing the Scripture they will understand that a Christian will be at the Judgment Seat of Christ, in which no one goes to Lake of Fire afterwards.

Anyways, if you want to receive it, great. If not, that's fine. But rightly dividing the word is a command of God to be approved before Him when it comes to Bible study, it's not a suggestion.

So you are in the camp that believes there are three dispensations?

Rightly dividing the Word of truth is about right interpretation and application, not the simplified version of divide we are most familiar with today as a matter of division.

There is no need to divide the Word into various sections (dispensations). God put forth the Old Covenant and with that He also pointed to the day when there would be a New Covenant. We can see this from Genesis onward. The Word flows as one, not as a fractured river with tributaries branching off here and there.

[Brother Rick]

So when God said divide He meant didn't mean divide, even though we have a New Testament and an Old Testament? Even though the Bible speaks clearly about before the law, under the law, and after the law? The sections are there, and the Scripture bears witness to them, river anologies notwithstanding.

[John81]

So when God said divide He meant didn't mean divide, even though we have a New Testament and an Old Testament? Even though the Bible speaks clearly about before the law, under the law, and after the law? The sections are there, and the Scripture bears witness to them, river anologies notwithstanding.

So, you believe there are three dispensations in Scripture?

[anime4christ]

Cal them whatever to like (except dispensations ) but I see only (sort of) 3 periods of time in which God deals differently with all of humanity: 1) in the garden, life was conditioned on works: eat fruit, die; don't eat, live. 2) after the fall, salvation is by grace alone; works are futile in achieving salvation. 3) after the cross, the church is formed as a new covenant community, awareness of God's law and grace is raised, gentiles are folded into the New covenant, the Holy Spirit's activity increases on earth and in people.

However, there are several things to bear in mind about these "ages". Adam and Eve were the only people present when salvation transitioned from works to grace, although technically salvation by works was never possible since it was a state of innocence rather than righteousness before the fall and there was nothing to save from at that point. So salvation has always been by grace, works ultimately only resulted in condemnation. While the New covenant did bring in more awareness and saw the fulfillment in Jesus which was not known as to how it will be fulfilled before, the old testament saints were saved by the same means as new testament saints, and awaited the same promises as we do. There is very much that can be said about the differences and similarities between the time before Christ and after.

We will be judged according to our works, but we won't be saved by our works. Our works will be the evidence in the court which will speak as to whether we were saved or not.

Edited January 28, 2012 by anime4christ

[2Tim215]

We will be judged according to our works, but we will be saved by our works. Our works will be the evidence in the court which will speak as to whether we were saved or not.

Absolute lie! We are saved by grace alone and our works are not evidence of salvation but of our love and obedience to our Lord and Savior.

[anime4christ]

I'm sorry, that was a typo because it's hard to write on this phone. I meant to say we are NOT saved by our works. I think that is evident from the rest of what I said.

[anime4christ]

Sorry about that. Fixed it.

[anime4christ]

Absolute lie! We are saved by grace alone and our works are not evidence of salvation but of our love and obedience to our Lord and Savior.

Isn't obedience doing something and not doing something else, ie. Works? And yes the motivation for our obedience is love. Our works and their motives will be the evidence of our salvation on judgment day.

[JerryNumbers]

Isn't obedience doing something and not doing something else, ie. Works? And yes the motivation for our obedience is love. Our works and their motives will be the evidence of our salvation on judgment day.

Seems you said it pretty good. I will carry it a step further.


1Co 3:11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Yes, we the saved will be judged accordingly to our works, & if any is left, them we will receive a reward, some will not have a reward, the Bible is quite clear, those will be saved as by fire. In that judgment we will not be judge weather we are saved or not saved, for only the saved will stand before this judgment seat, this judgment will only be for rewards.

Our works are evidence we are saved, our fellow believers cannot read out hearts thus Jesus says by their works we shall know them.

Mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Of course there be many that hate this verse, & go around claiming we are never to judge anyone, which contradicts what Jesus tells us.

I might add, even those that stand before the ‘great white throne,’ will be judge according to works.

Re 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


And of course we will be judged by the words written within the pages of the Bible that God has provided us with.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

I suppose many will be very surprised to find out that we will be judge by the very words of this old ‘Black Book.’ Probably some will say if I had only known that I would not only had carried it back & forth to church, I would have opened it, read it, & even studied it as our God told us to. Others may say, if I had known that it would have never gathered dust just laying on a shelf.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Yet, no one will have an excuse.

Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

All we can do is ‘trust & obey.’

[2Tim215]

I'm sorry, that was a typo because it's hard to write on this phone. I meant to say we are NOT saved by our works. I think that is evident from the rest of what I said.

Cool

Isn't obedience doing something and not doing something else, ie. Works? And yes the motivation for our obedience is love. Our works and their motives will be the evidence of our salvation on judgment day.

Put that way, then yes, obedience would be "evidence of salvation. But unlike some, I do not believe that saved believers who due to circumstances and wrong choices do not live lives of evident works are not saved because some Christians do not see their works. Many "Christians" who have wonderful work filled lives that everyone sees all the time have secret sins that they hide. Rather a fallible believer than a devious one. The problem with not seeing that God deals differently with man at different times (regardless of what term we use to label it) is that false doctrines like "kingdom now" , "Calvinism" , "Lordship salvation" and "repentance based salvation" just to mention a few arise.

[anime4christ]

Was the dispensation of the law for Israel only or all humanity? I really would hate to be under a dispensation where only some small tribe I've never heard of knows about it and can do what is necessary in that particular dispensation to be saved. Do you see where covenants are biblical and dispensations are not? Dispensations are like mathematical formulas through which God puts everyone in a certain time period through while covenants are explicit displays of God's love towards certain and specific people with whom he chooses to establish a covenant with in any time he chooses. The reason why "calvinists" see covenants is because they fit very well with God's sovereign choice which is evident all throughout scripture while non-Calvinists usually lean to a formula type salvation where each dispensation requires a different variable from the person's side in order to inherit salvation. Then there's the strange Calvinist/dispensational hybrid which makes no sense whatsoever.