Thou shalt not steal (a question)

[Nathaniel]

I recently purchased a board game called Settlers of Catan. (a brief explanation) It is a board game where you build colonies on an island. By getting resource cards by rolling a number that is on the tile. For instance to build a road you need one wood and one clay. The goal is to get ten points by building various things, in a way it is sort of like Monopoly.

Though I was thinking and the prOBlem I'm having is that if you roll a 7 you move the thief pawn onto a tile. When it is on a tile the tile cannot produce a resource. and if someone elses' settlement is on that tile you can take one card from them. Is this breaking (Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.)? I thought it was fine as it was just part of a game at first but, I realized that is similar to what my family says to justify their movies with magic such as Cinderella and other Disney movies (which I do not watch). I have explained why I do not watch them and have quoted verses such as Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an OBserver of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
Though is it hypocritical then to play a game with a thief in it?
If it is breaking that commandment, would it be alright to play it if I remove the thief from the game? I can find noting else wrong with the game itself other than the thief.

I try hard to abstain from the appearance of evil, and I'm 50/50 on this matter. I'm worried I may be hardening my heart as I do enjoy playing this game with my family.
I hope you all can guide me on this.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Nathaniel

[John81]

It seems to be showing stealing as a good thing. That would be a dangerous thing for children and others who might form the idea that stealing is okay sometimes or that stealing can be good or that being a thief isn't all bad.

Your comparison with movies and such which show ungodly things and actions is a good one. While it's "just a board game", those are "just movies". As you say, the same argument. If it's wrong in one, it's wrong in the other. From the tenor of your post, I think you may be realizing this more than you are aware.

[Annie]

I recently purchased a board game called Settlers of Catan. (a brief explanation) It is a board game where you build colonies on an island. By getting resource cards by rolling a number that is on the tile. For instance to build a road you need one wood and one clay. The goal is to get ten points by building various things, in a way it is sort of like Monopoly.

Though I was thinking and the prOBlem I'm having is that if you roll a 7 you move the thief pawn onto a tile. When it is on a tile the tile cannot produce a resource. and if someone elses' settlement is on that tile you can take one card from them. Is this breaking (Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.)? I thought it was fine as it was just part of a game at first but, I realized that is similar to what my family says to justify their movies with magic such as Cinderella and other Disney movies (which I do not watch). I have explained why I do not watch them and have quoted verses such as Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an OBserver of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
Though is it hypocritical then to play a game with a thief in it?
If it is breaking that commandment, would it be alright to play it if I remove the thief from the game? I can find noting else wrong with the game itself other than the thief.

I try hard to abstain from the appearance of evil, and I'm 50/50 on this matter. I'm worried I may be hardening my heart as I do enjoy playing this game with my family.
I hope you all can guide me on this.

Nathaniel, the answer to this question depends on what is meant by "steal." What does Exodus 20 mean when it says not to "steal"? Does it mean that a person can't take a basketball away from someone else in a game where such an action is legal, even desirable? Does it mean that one Bible quizzing team can't answer the question that stumped the other team, effecting a "steal" of those points? Must a runner in baseball deny himself the privilege of "stealing a base," because that action is forbidden by Scripture? These are the questions that you need to answer, using the mind God has given you.

"Stealing" has to do with property rights; if property rights did not exist (if I could not call something "mine" and you could not call something "yours"), then stealing would be meaningless and nonexistent. If an intruder entered my house at midnight to "steal" my property (that both he and I knew was not "up for grabs"), he would be morally wrong and in disOBedience to God. In a game, nothing is really and truly "mine" or "yours." It's all up for grabs, based on the rules of the game. The basis for "thou shalt not steal" is for "real" property rights: those are the "rules" for real life. There is no such basis in a game like Settlers (which, by the way, our family LOVES playing). Therefore, as long as the so-called "stealing" is done within the rules for the game, it is neither immoral nor unethical. Edited November 21, 2010 by Annie

[amblivion]

Nathaniel, the answer to this question depends on what is meant by "steal." What does Exodus 20 mean when it says not to "steal"? Does it mean that a person can't take a basketball away from someone else in a game where such an action is legal, even desirable? Does it mean that one Bible quizzing team can't answer the question that stumped the other team, effecting a "steal" of those points? Must a runner in baseball deny himself the privilege of "stealing a base," because that action is forbidden by Scripture? These are the questions that you need to answer, using the mind God has given you.

"Stealing" has to do with property rights; if property rights did not exist (if I could not call something "mine" and you could not call something "yours"), then stealing would be meaningless and nonexistent. If an intruder entered my house at midnight to "steal" my property (that both he and I knew was not "up for grabs"), he would be morally wrong and in disOBedience to God. In a game, nothing is really and truly "mine" or "yours." It's all up for grabs, based on the rules of the game. The basis for "thou shalt not steal" is for "real" property rights: those are the "rules" for real life. There is no such basis in a game like Settlers (which, by the way, our family LOVES playing). Therefore, as long as the so-called "stealing" is done within the rules for the game, it is neither immoral nor unethical.

I couldn't agree with you more Annie.

[John81]

In basketball the players don't own the ball so no one is stealing the ball when they take it.

The game in question seems to suggest the idea of taking what doesn't belong to you.

[Annie]

In basketball the players don't own the ball so no one is stealing the ball when they take it.

The game in question seems to suggest the idea of taking what doesn't belong to you.

In Settlers, the players don't own the resources/cards any more than a basketball player owns the ball. Just as in basketball a player "uses" the ball to score points (unless someone "steals" it from him), in Settlers, a player "uses" cards/resources to score points (again, unless someone "steals" them from him). It's really the same idea. The cards are gained by rolling dice...so, "easy come, easy go," just as in basketball. There are no true "property rights" involved. According to the rules of both basketball and Settlers, the ball/cards do not permanently "belong" to the player, but are up for grabs ("stealing" is not the only way a player can lose cards), depending on dice rolls and other cards that are played ("monopoly" card, "knight" card, etc.). The "rOBber" is just one small element of the game, and contributes to the strategy (all players must plan to defend themselves from the "rOBber," etc.). The scenario is this: each time a seven is rolled, the one who rolled the seven may place the "rOBber" (a black pawn) near a "settlement" of another player and draw a card from that player. If that player has in his possession a "knight" card, then when it is his turn, he can play that "knight" card to drive the "rOBber" off of his settlement onto someone else's settlement, and draw a card from that player.

You'd have to play the game to understand exactly what I'm talking about... Edited November 22, 2010 by Annie

[Annie]

Nathaniel, my advice would be to keep enjoying playing this game with your family, unless you really do feel that moving a black rOBber pawn onto someone's tile and drawing a card from them is real, Exodus 20 "stealing." Another option would be for you to move the black pawn onto the desert when you roll a seven...I'm sure everyone would love you for that!

[Nathaniel]

Thank you everyone for you advice! I'm leaning towards that it is okay, as if this isn't okay then we shouldn't play most games at all (like in Chess you are essentially killing the other person's soldiers.) I don't feel this is what Exodus 20 was referring too at least at this moment. I'm going to continue too pray about that if I am wrong that God will guide me to the correct decision.

[ThomasCooper]

Here's some advice: 1 Thessalonians 5:22

Please consult your Bible, KJV only, of course. Or ask a reputable preacher, not a woman on the internet.

[John81]

Here's some advice: 1 Thessalonians 5:22

Please consult your Bible, KJV only, of course. Or ask a reputable preacher, not a woman on the internet.

[Pastor Matt]

Here's some advice: 1 Thessalonians 5:22

Please consult your Bible, KJV only, of course. Or ask a reputable preacher, not a woman on the internet.

I agree with you with 1 Thessalonians 5:22, but I will say I have seen a lot better Scriptural advice coming from 12 year old girls than I have from you.

[John81]

I agree with you with 1 Thessalonians 5:22, but I will say I have seen a lot better Scriptural advice coming from 12 year old girls than I have from you.

Thanks Bro Matt! You reminded me of the 1980 presidential election!

[Annie]

Thank you everyone for you advice! I'm leaning towards that it is okay, as if this isn't okay then we shouldn't play most games at all (like in Chess you are essentially killing the other person's soldiers.) I don't feel this is what Exodus 20 was referring too at least at this moment. I'm going to continue too pray about that if I am wrong that God will guide me to the correct decision.

Nathaniel, I can tell you have a tender heart toward the Lord. You remind me of one of my sons; this is just the kind of question he would ask. Can I encourage you (as I encourage my son) to be confident in God's grace? After prayerfully considering Scripture, evaluating how it relates to your question, gathering counsel (especially from your parents), etc., don't be afraid to make a decision like a man and stick with it. Live out your convictions strongly; don't waffle back and forth, living in doubt, as if God is sitting up there with a big stick ready to strike you the minute you "get out of line." If you are a Christian, and you sincerely want to please the Lord, He will guide you just as He promises; you don't have to worry, as long as you are "acknowledging Him in all your ways, He will direct your path."

[Brother Rick]

I LOVE THE GAME SETTLERS!!!!!

We hate the rOBber though, so we invented an additional house rule. You can either put the rOBber on someone's property, as is the standard game rule, and annoy that person to where they'll be gunning for you any shot they get - OR you can move the rOBber into the desert (or leave him in the desert). If you put the rOBber in the desert, you get one free resource card of whatever you want.

:-)

Great point, Annie, about how stealing only really applies if the property is real.

[Annie]

I LOVE THE GAME SETTLERS!!!!!

We hate the rOBber though, so we invented an additional house rule. You can either put the rOBber on someone's property, as is the standard game rule, and annoy that person to where they'll be gunning for you any shot they get - OR you can move the rOBber into the desert (or leave him in the desert). If you put the rOBber in the desert, you get one free resource card of whatever you want.

:-)

Great point, Annie, about how stealing only really applies if the property is real.

We have house rules for the rOBber, too. The thing we don't like about the rOBber is that it can really slow the game down in the beginning, when all of the players are trying to collect enough cards to get started building. (And a seven is a high-percentage roll, which can really make it hard to get the game started.) So, we say that the rOBber isn't "live" until either all players have 3 points, or one player has 4. That way, the resource production has a chance to get rolling before the rOBber is introduced into the game, and the rule also keeps one player from "running away" with the game. Of course, the rOBber can be placed on the desert as well throughout the game, but I think the rOBber is a necessary part of the game, in that it stops whoever got the best numbers/placements from running away with the game. We don't try to "get another player back" for putting the rOBber on us. We put it on whoever "needs" it on him (whoever is winning), regardless of who put it on us. It's not a "personal" thing with us...just part of the game. Hey, if you don't want the rOBber on you, you'd better think about settling so that you will have wheat, sheep and ore to buy knights...That's part of the strategy. (But you know that.) And, since a roll of seven is the most likely, statistics-wise, the rOBber usually doesn't stay in one place long, anyway.

My husband and I like to play this game online occasionally, too. I'd give you the link, but the site we play on isn't accepting any new registrations at this time. The online versions of Catan use the rOBber in a similar way to our house rules (rOBber isn't live until at least one player has 3 points).

OK, here's the link anyway, in case it ever opens up for new members. (Membership is free.) I'm "Annie" on that site, too, so maybe you can find me and check out my Settlerz skillz (lol...my ranking usually isn't that great, actually). It would be fun to play you (or whoever else on OB) sometime. On this site, the game is called "Xplorers" (I guess b/c of copyright), and the tiles look a bit different, but the game is exactly the same. They also offer the "Cities and Knights" version of Settlers, which I enjoy playing as well. But, be careful...The game can be addictive if you let it! Everything in moderation...Let me know if you get in, and we'll play!
http://games.asOBrain.com/ Edited November 22, 2010 by Annie