Interesting quotes concerning music made by instruments in Churches

[irishman]

Perhaps the early church fathers forget that David was a musician, and was used to soothe the headaches of Saul. I believe he (David) even invented his own stringed instrument, and sang to the glory of God.

As one poster said,the association with evil is what appeared to make music evil, but can an inanimate OBject be evil unto itself? The evil is in the use of it, and the heart of man. Satan was said to be in charge of "pipes" in heaven before he was cast down. The old-timers no doubt, had this in mind when condemning the use of organs in the church.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.


One would have to ask then, why do we exalt the "precious stones" that are mentioned here, and condemn the musical instruments?

[trc123]

Perhaps the early church fathers forget that David was a musician, and was used to soothe the headaches of Saul. I believe he (David) even invented his own stringed instrument, and sang to the glory of God.

As one poster said,the association with evil is what appeared to make music evil, but can an inanimate OBject be evil unto itself? The evil is in the use of it, and the heart of man. Satan was said to be in charge of "pipes" in heaven before he was cast down. The old-timers no doubt, had this in mind when condemning the use of organs in the church.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.


One would have to ask then, why do we exalt the "precious stones" that are mentioned here, and condemn the musical instruments?

And yet there are so many today who condemn the use of certain musical instruments in churches today; even though they are just "instruments."

[Covenanter]

And yet there are so many today who condemn the use of certain musical instruments in churches today; even though they are just "instruments."

Musical instruments used to accompany Psalms, hymns & spiritual songs do not inhibit true worship - they help us to sing in tune. Indeed, how would we know the tune without it being written down, transmitted & played? We can't all sing from written music.

Many of the Indian songs we use are transmitted orally & have local variations. I have listened carefully to try to establish a version for us to sing, & I normally lead using my Indian harmonium. The authentic Indian version can be very difficult for English ears.

If we condemn those who use instruments in worship to lead the singing, we are imposing a requirement that is not in Scripture, & cannot be inferred from melody in the heart. When I play by ear, the melody has to be in my heart & mind or I can't play it.

We certainly cannot condemn those who reject the use of instruments. We often sing unaccompanied & that can't be wrong.

[trc123]

Apparently standards associated for "sacred" music (instruments, style, etc.) have changed throughout the ages. If this be true, who among us gets to set the "acceptable use" standard for each generation?

[John81]

From the quotes, it seems the main reason for the OBjection to instruments was due to circumstances/situations at the time. In order to establish a clear difference between them and Jews or between them and Catholics they decided to sing without instruments.

This may have been a good idea at some point and in some places but it seems to have become a perceived standard, a tradition, among some who tried to hold to this beyond necessity.

It's kind of like how in some churches there are certain things done a certain way and nOBody knows why other than "that's how we've always done it".

As to who sets the standard for acceptable use, that would be the Word of God.

At one point it may have been best to give up the liberty to use instruments for the sake of clear separation from ungodly churches.

The Word of God will answer our questions if we diligently seek the answers in prayer and patiently await the Lord's response.

[trc123]

From the quotes, it seems the main reason for the OBjection to instruments was due to circumstances/situations at the time. In order to establish a clear difference between them and Jews or between them and Catholics they decided to sing without instruments.

This may have been a good idea at some point and in some places but it seems to have become a perceived standard, a tradition, among some who tried to hold to this beyond necessity.

It's kind of like how in some churches there are certain things done a certain way and nOBody knows why other than "that's how we've always done it".

As to who sets the standard for acceptable use, that would be the Word of God.

At one point it may have been best to give up the liberty to use instruments for the sake of clear separation from ungodly churches.

The Word of God will answer our questions if we diligently seek the answers in prayer and patiently await the Lord's response.

Agreed, very well put.

Do you foresee this same type of movement (what is acceptable and sets the true church's music apart from other false religions) as an ongoing trend throughout the ages?

[John81]

Agreed, very well put.

Do you foresee this same type of movement (what is acceptable and sets the true church's music apart from other false religions) as an ongoing trend throughout the ages?

To one extent or another, I think so. I've read of similar things on the missionary field, whether in Africa, South America or elsewhere, of the first generation of saved folks there separating certain instruments from their services because of their assocation with their use in their old false religion. Typically, generations later when the instruments are no longer strongly associated with the old false religion, some or all of the instruments make their way into the Christian services.

[Covenanter]

We could, of course, argue that the only Psalms, hymns & spiritual songs are in the Psalter, plus the songs of praise & testimony that appear in Scripture, such as Habakkuk 3, the Magnificat & Nunc Dimittis. These are not in a form that can easily by sung. [i spent my years up to 18 in the CofE getting lost in the Prayer Book & failing to sing the Psalter chants.

I don't know how singable the Hebrew & Greek are, [pity David did not record his Psalms] but the KJV is not suitable for congregational worship.

We have to work out how best to OBey our Lord's command to ¶ O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth..... Psa 96:1

Adapting Scripture to verse & metre is the time honoured way for congregational worship.

[HappyChristian]

We could, of course, argue that the only Psalms, hymns & spiritual songs are in the Psalter, plus the songs of praise & testimony that appear in Scripture, such as Habakkuk 3, the Magnificat & Nunc Dimittis. These are not in a form that can easily by sung. [i spent my years up to 18 in the CofE getting lost in the Prayer Book & failing to sing the Psalter chants.

I don't know how singable the Hebrew & Greek are, [pity David did not record his Psalms] but the KJV is not suitable for congregational worship.

We have to work out how best to OBey our Lord's command to ¶ O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth..... Psa 96:1

Adapting Scripture to verse & metre is the time honoured way for congregational worship.

I would have to say that I don't think (and this is where the argument - not heated! - would come in) that hymns and spiritual songs would necessarily have to be scripture put to music. I do believe that the psalms mentioned in your reference would be the book of Psalms, since that was actually the Jewish songbook. I know several Psalms put to music, and teach them to my 3rd grade Sunday School class. It's a great way for them to remember scripture. There are a good number of verses throughout the Bible that I know in song, and I teach them, also. They love it, and so do I.

Hymns, I think, would be songs that are heavy in Biblical content. Not necessarily exact wording of scripture, but the principles contained therein. Scriptural songs would, to me, be things like Jesus Loves Me (although some class that as a hymn) and Jesus Loves the Little Children of the World, etc.

[trc123]

To one extent or another, I think so. I've read of similar things on the missionary field, whether in Africa, South America or elsewhere, of the first generation of saved folks there separating certain instruments from their services because of their assocation with their use in their old false religion. Typically, generations later when the instruments are no longer strongly associated with the old false religion, some or all of the instruments make their way into the Christian services.

Do you think that as those standards move along the spectrum over time and the changes take place that there will always be those who are so resistant to change that they will condemn anything that is different or new from what they currently do or know by way of music in the Church?

[Annie]

Do you think that as those standards move along the spectrum over time and the changes take place that there will always be those who are so resistant to change that they will condemn anything that is different or new from what they currently do or know by way of music in the Church?

If I may jump in here...I'll say that I think there will always be people who have a condemning spirit, whether that spirit is directed toward musical instruments, or dress, or whatever else. I think we are all "resistant to change" in our own ways, too. I think the question isn't so much about what instruments are used, but, more specifically, about the kind of music that is produced when those instruments are played, either alone or combined with other instruments/sounds. "Music" is about more than just "this or that instrument." So much has to be taken into account and evaluated...From what culture did this style of music spring? With what is this kind of music now associated? What is the message of the music itself to me (my soul, my body, my spirit)? Does the music reflect the message of the text? Form always modifies content.

For example, I've heard some people say, "What's wrong with a drum set on the church platform?" or, "What's wrong with an electric guitar?" They put the focus on the instrument itself, and ignore the deeper questions and the larger contexts. I'm not saying that's what anyone here is doing.

[HappyChristian]

I would agree with you,Annie, for the most part. Sometimes, though, we need to be resistant to change. And that resistance isn't always from a condemning spirit (not that I think you implied that, Annie - just wanted to clarify my own thoughts).

[John81]

I would agree with you,Annie, for the most part. Sometimes, though, we need to be resistant to change. And that resistance isn't always from a condemning spirit (not that I think you implied that, Annie - just wanted to clarify my own thoughts).

Agreed. We shouldn't be quick to change unless there is clear leading from the Lord on a matter. That's one good thing about our church, we don't rush into anything.