Youth Pastors

[OFIB Preacher]

I'm not sure how I get lumped in with some who say all of this is wrong or that it shouldn't be done because most don't do it right since I never said any such thing. I even commended those who do such right and praised God for the childrens church which helped Suzy come to Christ.

Now on to your church...it sounds as if your church has developed a well thought out means of reaching the very young and in integrating them into the church at large while yet at a young age. This is good. It also sounds as if this program isn't about babysitting but rather the time is being redeemed for the glory of God with the intent of bringing children to salvation in Christ. Again, this is good. It's also good that thought and planning is put ito who works the nursery rather than simply staffing it with available teens. It sounds as if this would be something other churches could learn from.

One of the prOBlems today is that most churches are just becoming way to watered down and they are usually at their worst with regards to children. The children are taught a few Bible stories, typically without any real context or with any intent of using the stories to lead children to Christ. This often effects not only childrens church, but the Sunday school and youth group programs as well. Eventualy the rot generally makes it's way into the pulpit.

Whereas your church seeks to biblically educate children with the intent of pointing them to Christ and bringing them into the church family at a young age, most churches perpetuate the separation of children from adults, often even through high school. This is among the reasons why many teens, once they graduate high school, leave the church. They grew up in entertainment oriented childrens/youth programs and then suddenly they are expected to just sit and listen to a sermon. They've been trained to expect entertainment and "fun" so sitting in a pew is something they are not used to and seems so boring as compared to the rest of their lives.

As I've indicated previously, our church has a nursery. Some use the nursery, some bring their babies and toddlers to the services. We have childrens church during the school year but not during the summer months. Ours is much smaller than yours but set up with the intent to bring children to Christ and get them into the church at large. Our children and youth programs are Christ centered so they are much smaller than the nearby church which has an entertainment centered children/youth program.

My main point all along has been that church should be family friendly and Christ centered. Most churches today wrongly divide the family, helping to create and perpetuate "generation gaps" and many of these keep this division up throughout a childs life up to graduation from high school. Along with the prOBlem of divided families, many of these churches also over-emphasis childrens/youth programs above other aspects of the church. The rest of the church is expect to cater to and give way for the childrens/youth programs. These are the programs I'm against.

Programs designed to bring children to Christ and incorporate them into the church family at a young age sound like a blessing for many. Amen! The only thing I would be against in this area would be if parents were forced to put their children in them. I don't know how common this is but I've noticed some churches today do demand that children up to a certain age attend the nursery/childrens programs; this I don't agree with.

Just to clarify something, the LORD saved me as a teen, at a Revival meeting! I rode the church bus on Sunday morning and rode with one of the families who worked the bus, on Sunday nights, Wednesday nights and any other time the doors were open! I also participated in the regular services and I thank the LORD for being able to do so! BTW, we had "Children's Church!"

AMEN, Brother John!

[Anon]

1 Tim. 2:11-15
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shal be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sOBriety.

Last I checked the context there is church...and last I checked, Online Baptist isn't a church...and not a "parachurch organization" even, for those also posting over in the "local church" thread....

[OFIB Preacher]

Thank you. I would that more churches did have programs like your church, my church, and PreacherE's church. I'm thankful at least three churches in this day are seeking to lead children to Christ! (For everyone else, yes, I know some other churches do to)

It's such a shame to see the vast majority of churches misleading children, separating families and leading children, youth and oftentimes even adults, away from Christ rather than towards Christ.

I'm very saddened by our local situation where one watered down church has established a very popular entertainment centered children and youth program that draws a far larger number of children/youth than the other local churches combined. Being in a small town in a very rural area I know many of the families involved and over the years I've seen so many in that church/youth program involved in drunkenness, premarital sex, many unmarried pregnancies, several youth shacking up and various aspects of rebellion.

Our church certainly isn't perfect but the track record of the youth coming out of our childrens/youth programs isn't like that other church at all.

Even so, people continually sing the praises of the watered down, entertainment centered churches childrens/youth programs and they are continually trying to talk folks into taking their children out of the "boring" children/youth programs and put them in that churches.

Certainly many of these parents are lost themselves, but some of them are indeed Christians. It's so sad to see them choosing entertainment over eternity with Christ and trying to get others to join them.

Praise God for those churches still in the "business" of winning young and old alike to Christ!

Brother John, the situation you describe, is truely sad.
Personally, (and you may disagree, but I did say "personally,") I still contend the best way for young and old alike to learn, is to be in the regular services, letting the Pastor preach to them and enjoying the worship!

[OFIB Preacher]

It's sad that this is true. Most parents are looking for a babysitter rather than a church which will teach their children the truth. Also, if the children learn the truth that means the parents might would have to change some things at home.

AMEN, PreacherE! The best way for the children in your church to learn, is letting your Pastor preach to them!

[Anon]

Ahem....actually...if the father is teaching his children the Bible at home as the Bible commands, then his children will be well-versed in Scripture and have a good relationship with the Lord, regardless of what "class" they attend in church.

The best place for children to learn the Word of God is home, actually.

Church is to fellowship with other believers and be energized and encouraged to keep living for God throughout the week, and to worship God. If a church chooses to allow children to "fellowship" and be "encouraged" with other children and learn about God on their level, it is their right...and if parents choose to keep children with them in church, that is also their right.

Sunday is for worshipping God...but HOME is for teaching children about God. Technically, and Biblically.

[OFIB Preacher]

That is so true! Many of the parents in this area look for anything to involve their kids in so they're not at home. Not only do they look to church activities, school and other things as free babysitters but they actually expect them to make up for their failure to parent. I heard a mother recently talking about how she can't wait until she can get her kids in preschool so THEY can teach her children how to share, sit still, play nice with others and mind. Wow! I thought teaching children such things were a parents jOB!

I've also noticed that if some children do pick up on something at church parents are often quick to say such is just for church or to otherwise minimize it. Can't have their children messing up their lives with that "church stuff"! Unfortunately, my sister fits into this category.

One of the fastest growing and largest churches in a nearby college town doesn't even have a pastor! The church is a satelite of an actual church on the far west side of the state. The "services" amount mostly to a lot of rockin' "worship music", followed by a satelite feed on a big screen in the sanctuary of the preacher as he preaches a short sermon to his congregation in the church in that other city.

Churches where children and youth can "have fun" seem to be all the rage and it's spreading more and more so that even adults want to have "fun" church. Of course, this mostly means worldly fun with a covering of Christianity. Lot's of rockin' praise and worship music, lots of skits and plays, lots of videos, lots of games...add just a little Jesus who was all about fun and love and apparently lots of rockin' music and it's the "Christianity" they are lookin' for.

Once again, so true and sad.

[OFIB Preacher]

Last I checked the context there is church...and last I checked, Online Baptist isn't a church...and not a "parachurch organization" even, for those also posting over in the "local church" thread....

Where's this "local church" thread, of which you speak?

[OFIB Preacher]

Ahem....actually...if the father is teaching his children the Bible at home as the Bible commands, then his children will be well-versed in Scripture and have a good relationship with the Lord, regardless of what "class" they attend in church.

The best place for children to learn the Word of God is home, actually.

Church is to fellowship with other believers and be energized and encouraged to keep living for God throughout the week, and to worship God. If a church chooses to allow children to "fellowship" and be "encouraged" with other children and learn about God on their level, it is their right...and if parents choose to keep children with them in church, that is also their right.

Sunday is for worshipping God...but HOME is for teaching children about God. Technically, and Biblically.

I was speaking of a church setting.

[JerryNumbers]

John, come visit our jr. church and you'll find one that's doing it right! We have a large bus ministry, and many children come without their parents. I realize that there are prOBably some on here that are against the bus ministry - after all, the Bible doesn't mention it any more than it does youth pastors, assistant pastors and jr. church. But the Bible does tell us to suffer the little children to come unto Him. And so we do...

Our jr. church is in two parts, actually. Kids whose parents are members go to jr. church until they are 4. Once they hit kindergarten, they come to the a.m. services (they are in the evening services when they turn 3). Kids who ride the bus go to jr. church through grade 6. And they have absolutely wonderful teachers. Several of the men on our pastoral staff teach the classes, as well as some of the deacons. And they preach. And it isn't watered down. But it is geared to their needs. When they hit 7th grade, they start coming to the main service.

In our church, a nursery is necessary. We have a GREAT number of wee ones at any given time...some more than others, but always a large amount. If a church body doesn't want a nursery, so be it. But the Bible doesn't direct exactly how everything is to go - no matter what anyone says about the Bible not being silent on some things - and so, the pastor and the church family make those decisions. (BTW - our nursery isn't just a time to play. Once they hit the one year old nursery, there is Bible time, song and memory verse time...in every service...and no-one just goes to work in the nursery. They are assigned. No teens work in the nursery during any regular church service)

When we get to the point where we disdain something that an independent local church is doing because "most" churches don't do it "right," we are lifting ourselves up and asserting that I know what's best for every single church, and there is no room for difference. That smacks of pride, to me...and, like BroMatt mentioned: it turns off those who don't know Christ, and even some babes in Christ will turn away. Sad.

Your getting very good at using such remarks when you disagree with some one. Quite an accusation. Why not just say you disagree and why, them leave it at that, them leave such remarks off? Such remarks are not very becoming to you.

No, one does not have to have a nursery, I've said that much, and it was not from me being self-righteous, I was telling it just as it is, nothing more. Plus I do not like to be called self-righteous.


I've seen it proven over and over again in my 63 years by parents that train their children properly. And yes, a parent has to make a trip out of the worship service once in a while, sometime to disciple the child, sometimes to comfort the child, and or other issues early on. But if done right that will soon be a thing of the past.


Pr 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.


It works only if the parent does it.

[John81]

Brother John, the situation you describe, is truely sad.
Personally, (and you may disagree, but I did say "personally,") I still contend the best way for young and old alike to learn, is to be in the regular services, letting the Pastor preach to them and enjoying the worship!

I agree this is the best approach and it's how such was conducted during most of church history.

[Pastor Matt]

I must be doing it all wrong, I never sit with my family during church. I'm thinking about having my family up on the stage with me so that we can be together.

I'm kinda of disappointed in the lack of Scriptural support for the case some are making here. I saw Scripture about training a child and how we worship God is Spirit, but those Scriptures have nothing to do with keeping families together in service. Without Scripture this only becomes a personal conviction. Personal convictions are great as we all have them, but we must remember that they are just personal.

We must realize that different programs are needed for different churches. I've been in inner city churches where you can never do things the way you do things in a country church, and the same is vice-versa. There is no Scriptural support on this area for all churches across the board. This is the reason why this is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, it is up to the local pastor to listen to God to decide how to run that church. Of course I will gladly change my view if Scripture is there to support it.

[John81]

In light of history it's very interesting to take note of the many things churches think they have to have today and that many Christians demand that churches must have today in order to make them "good churches".

For nearly 2,000 years families gathered together to worship God, hear the Word preached and expounded upon, sing glorifying songs to the Lord and have fellowship. This was all done together, often in a simple home, a one or two room church, or even in outdoor venues.

Today it's proclaimed churches must have nurseries, childrens church, 'active' Sunday school, youth groups, women's activities, activities for seniors, skits and plays, singles groups, divorced groups, sound systems, multi-media, movie events, entertaining programs, special events throughout the year, up-to-date A/C and heating systems, special lighting, parking assistance, trained security personel inside and outside the church, internet, refreshments, etc.

I'm certainly not saying all these things are bad or that some might not even be beneficial, but they are not necessities. Bible believing churches are dying all the time because they don't have the funds for all these "necessities" that Christians demand. The only Baptist church this town once had failed to really take off and eventually closed because of this. Outreach efforts constantly heard the same retorts of "If...your church had youth programs...more entertainment...special things for women...more children for Sunday school...maybe if they had a nursery, etc." Nothing about what was actually preached, nothing about doctrinal statements, always outright rejection of that Baptist church because they didn't have all the "necessities" Christians demand.

Since some may want to read too much into this and jump to erronious conclusions, I'm NOT saying all churches should meet in some sort of old style church consisting of a sanctuary with hard wooeden pews, windows for air, two pot belly stoves for heat and maybe a room in the back.

[John81]

Ahem....actually...if the father is teaching his children the Bible at home as the Bible commands, then his children will be well-versed in Scripture and have a good relationship with the Lord, regardless of what "class" they attend in church.

The best place for children to learn the Word of God is home, actually.

Church is to fellowship with other believers and be energized and encouraged to keep living for God throughout the week, and to worship God. If a church chooses to allow children to "fellowship" and be "encouraged" with other children and learn about God on their level, it is their right...and if parents choose to keep children with them in church, that is also their right.

Sunday is for worshipping God...but HOME is for teaching children about God. Technically, and Biblically.

I agree and disagree

Absolutely children should learn the Word of God at home. However, to say that if a father does teach his children the Bible at home they will have a good relationship with the Lord isn't necessarily true. That child may or may not accept the Lord.

At the same time, that same child may or may not accept the Lord through preaching at church as well.

I don't know about the use of the term "right" but as I've stated before, I praise God for those churches who do have Christ-centered childrens programs just as I praise God for those churches where the whole congregation meets together in a Christ-centered manner.

Most important is that whichever the approach, it's the intent that Christ be taught and the Gospel presented in the hope that all, regardless of age, will come to Christ and be discipled in Christ.

[OFIB Preacher]

Your getting very good at using such remarks when you disagree with some one. Quite an accusation. Why not just say you disagree and why, them leave it at that, them leave such remarks off? Such remarks are not very becoming to you.

No, one does not have to have a nursery, I've said that much, and it was not from me being self-righteous, I was telling it just as it is, nothing more. Plus I do not like to be called self-righteous.


I've seen it proven over and over again in my 63 years by parents that train their children properly. And yes, a parent has to make a trip out of the worship service once in a while, sometime to disciple the child, sometimes to comfort the child, and or other issues early on. But if done right that will soon be a thing of the past.

Pr 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

It works only if the parent does it.

I agree, 100 percent!
AMEN!

[OFIB Preacher]

I agree this is the best approach and it's how such was conducted during most of church history.

It worked all that time, so why doesn't it work now? Oh, yeah, it still does, but people refuse to do it! BTW, the "you" I mentioned was covering everybody up here and not singling you out!