Is the IFB the only true church?

[John81]

Confusion regarding when one is talking about a local church and all believers seems to be a problem here. From what I've read of Jerry's posts he has never said only one denomination is the one and only who are saved, who are "the church" or who will go to heaven. Jerry has rightly pointed out that in Scripture we see that those who were added to THE LOCAL CHURCH were believers who had been baptized. Scripture says that new believers were baptized and THEN added to the LOCAL CHURCH.

There will be many in heaven from various local churches, not just one or one by a particular name, and Jerry has said as much.

Jerry has also pointed out that if one is saved but fails or refuses to be baptized they are not members of a LOCAL CHURCH. All good local churches follow the example of Scripture and require baptism of believers before they are added as members of their LOCAL CHURCH.

A true born again believer in Christ who has failed or refused to be baptized for some reason, if they die in that condition, will attain heaven, but will, as Jerry said, lose rewards for not obeying the Lord in being baptized.

[dantheman2]

Confusion regarding when one is talking about a local church and all believers seems to be a problem here. From what I've read of Jerry's posts he has never said only one denomination is the one and only who are saved, who are "the church" or who will go to heaven. Jerry has rightly pointed out that in Scripture we see that those who were added to THE LOCAL CHURCH were believers who had been baptized. Scripture says that new believers were baptized and THEN added to the LOCAL CHURCH.

There will be many in heaven from various local churches, not just one or one by a particular name, and Jerry has said as much.

Jerry has also pointed out that if one is saved but fails or refuses to be baptized they are not members of a LOCAL CHURCH. All good local churches follow the example of Scripture and require baptism of believers before they are added as members of their LOCAL CHURCH.

A true born again believer in Christ who has failed or refused to be baptized for some reason, if they die in that condition, will attain heaven, but will, as Jerry said, lose rewards for not obeying the Lord in being baptized.

Excuse me but coc333 mentioned Acts 2:47. I don't see the word local in that passage. Could you tell me where you get the idea of the local church? I do understand that there are local churches but in Acts 2:47 it simply says that the Lord adds those who are saved to the church not that we add them to a local church.

[Brother Rick]

The scriptures do not "clearly teach" that water baptism is part of salvation. Water doesn't save anyone. The only people who were "saved by water" in the Bible never got wet and were in a boat.

The Church of Christ denomination is a heretical organization.

[Covenanter]

The scriptures do not "clearly teach" that water baptism is part of salvation. Water doesn't save anyone. The only people who were "saved by water" in the Bible never got wet and were in a boat.

The Church of Christ denomination is a heretical organization.

Agreed. Saving baptism is by the Holy Spirit into Christ, & baptism is symbolic of the blood of Christ.

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Gal 3:26 ¶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Hbr 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

We baptise believers.

[coc333]

The scriptures do not "clearly teach" that water baptism is part of salvation. Water doesn't save anyone. The only people who were "saved by water" in the Bible never got wet and were in a boat.

The Church of Christ denomination is a heretical organization.

The Bible in fact does teach that water baptism is required to be saved. I will be glad to affirm that here or at any other point in public or private discussion.

As to denominationalism: The Bible is anti-denominational and teaches that all denominations are sinful. I agree completely with the Bible on that. I am not a member of any denomination nor do I wish to be a part of any denomination.

[JerryNumbers]

No, I did not even come close to saying one has to be baptized to be saved. As I previously stated, 1st a person is saved, 2nd they are baptized. Baptizing did not saved Jesus, and its never saved anyone. If baptizing saves, them we would have to believe that Jesus was baptized for that very reason, yet we know that is not true.


One who is lost, if baptized, that only makes them a wet sinner, it washes not away the sin, the blood of Christ does that, that is why we sing the song, "There Is A Fountain," "There Is Power In The Blood," "Washed In The Blood?"


We never sing, and y'all probably do not either, "Have You Been Washed In The Water," "Oh That Amazing Water,", nor "The Amazing Baptistery," and for a very good reason. Its amazing grace, not amazing water.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[Brother Rick]

The Bible in fact does teach that water baptism is required to be saved.

Buddy, you're in the wrong place to be saying stuff like that. We may disagree about a lot of things around here, but we stand shoulder-to-shoulder on the doctrine of Salvation.

You might as well go into New Orleans and Detroit and start dissing Martin Luther King.

[John81]

Buddy, you're in the wrong place to be saying stuff like that. We may disagree about a lot of things around here, but we stand shoulder-to-shoulder on the doctrine of Salvation.

You might as well go into New Orleans and Detroit and start dissing Martin Luther King.

How about a little Christian love and show from Scripture the falsehood of his statement?

I've "dissed" MLK in several all-black and virtually all-black places by speaking the truth about the non-christian, womanizing, communist sympathizing liar. Of course my intention was not to "diss", but to shine the light of truth and I did so in a gentle manner. That said, I don't see what this has to do with the subject at hand. An interesting aside to this, most of the black history class I was in at university (I was the only white in the class) was shocked when I spoke the truth regarding MLK and the militant black supremacist professor agreed with me, cited proofs of what I said and said he wished the average black had the understanding and boldness I did.

[Brother Rick]

How about a little Christian love and show from Scripture the falsehood of his statement?

We've already tried that several times with him, this man is not seeking the truth or to discuss doctrinal nuances - he's here to push a blatant heretical agenda.

Titus 3:10-11, "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11) Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." Edited March 24, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[John81]

We've already tried that several times with him.

Titus 3:10-11, "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11) Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

In situations where there are onlookers, while one might not be able to reach the person they are addressing directly, yet they may indeed reach the onlookers. The lurkers and readers may benefit from your biblical examples.

Along with what the other stated besides the false idea of baptism being necessary for salvation (something I had a series of debates over with an Eastern Orthodox several years ago), he also stated the false concept that Scripture is against denominations. The fact is, Scripture doesn't address denominations. Early Christians found themselves facing false teachers and false "christian" sects forming to the point where it was necessary to differentiate themselves from those. What is a denomination or a church name other than a means of identification?

[coc333]

Buddy, you're in the wrong place to be saying stuff like that. We may disagree about a lot of things around here, but we stand shoulder-to-shoulder on the doctrine of Salvation.

You might as well go into New Orleans and Detroit and start dissing Martin Luther King.

Rick, the truth is the truth no matter where it is said. I have not said anything that I can't and won't back up with scripture. The Bible clearly teaches that it is required that we are baptized in water in order to be saved. I will be more than happy to defend the truth in any setting, public or private.

[coc333]

In situations where there are onlookers, while one might not be able to reach the person they are addressing directly, yet they may indeed reach the onlookers. The lurkers and readers may benefit from your biblical examples.

Along with what the other stated besides the false idea of baptism being necessary for salvation (something I had a series of debates over with an Eastern Orthodox several years ago), he also stated the false concept that Scripture is against denominations. The fact is, Scripture doesn't address denominations. Early Christians found themselves facing false teachers and false "christian" sects forming to the point where it was necessary to differentiate themselves from those. What is a denomination or a church name other than a means of identification?

Actually John, the bible does teach that denominationalism is sinful. I suggest that you read the first 4 chapters of 1 Cor. Look at chapter 1:10ff where Paul clearly stated that Christians are to speak the same things and yet you, I trust, will admit that those in denominations are not speaking the same thing. Eph 4:1ff Paul again spoke of unity. Jesus in the true Lord's prayer (John 17) prayed that His people would be united. Denominationalism divides not unites.

[coc333]

No, I did not even come close to saying one has to be baptized to be saved. As I previously stated, 1st a person is saved, 2nd they are baptized. Baptizing did not saved Jesus, and its never saved anyone. If baptizing saves, them we would have to believe that Jesus was baptized for that very reason, yet we know that is not true.


One who is lost, if baptized, that only makes them a wet sinner, it washes not away the sin, the blood of Christ does that, that is why we sing the song, "There Is A Fountain," "There Is Power In The Blood," "Washed In The Blood?"


We never sing, and y'all probably do not either, "Have You Been Washed In The Water," "Oh That Amazing Water,", nor "The Amazing Baptistery," and for a very good reason. Its amazing grace, not amazing water.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Jerry, as you are aware Jesus did not need saving. By your logic we can not say that faith is required for salvation since Jesus of course had faith.

Yes, the blood of Christ washes away sin but it is in baptism that we contact the blood of Christ (Rom 6:3ff).

[John81]

Actually John, the bible does teach that denominationalism is sinful. I suggest that you read the first 4 chapters of 1 Cor. Look at chapter 1:10ff where Paul clearly stated that Christians are to speak the same things and yet you, I trust, will admit that those in denominations are not speaking the same thing. Eph 4:1ff Paul again spoke of unity. Jesus in the true Lord's prayer (John 17) prayed that His people would be united. Denominationalism divides not unites.

Denominations formed, for the most part, as a matter of separation. Those who are of like mind in Christ can, and should, join together. Denominations are a fact because there are many who hold to false teachings that biblical Christians should not be a part of. A Christian should be able to tell just by the denomination of a church whether that church is worthy of consideration or not. Denominations are attempts to identify who is a part of them and serves to help discerning Christians know which to avoid.

[JerryNumbers]

Jerry, as you are aware Jesus did not need saving. By your logic we can not say that faith is required for salvation since Jesus of course had faith.

Yes, the blood of Christ washes away sin but it is in baptism that we contact the blood of Christ (Rom 6:3ff).

No sense going on, we will disagre on that, yet its clearly by grace though faith in Jesus, its a gift, not works, not of self, all one can do is accept the gift, and or reject.


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Quite simple, yet a stumbling block for many.