Prescription medication and Sorcery

[kevinmiller]

Thank you, Jerry. This discussion saddens me. I am going to clean my house now, which will be much more profitable than wasting my time on here, although I'm sure I'll be back tonight because I'm dying to see how many IFB Christians honestly believe it's dangerous to reject the teachings of the likes of Freud and Darwin. May God help us.

Don't worry too much about it. I'm not IFB so there's still hope!

Judging by your narrowmindedness(sorry, but it's true), I'm guessing you prOBably think I'm a reprOBate anyway. Just the fact that you're saying that we accept the teaching of Freud and Darwin when they were never mentioned tells me a lot about you and, I'm sorry to say, your education on the subject. My recommendation? Take a REAL Christian psychology class.

[ptwild]

Thank you, Jerry. This discussion saddens me. I am going to clean my house now, which will be much more profitable than wasting my time on here, although I'm sure I'll be back tonight because I'm dying to see how many IFB Christians honestly believe it's dangerous to reject the teachings of the likes of Freud and Darwin. May God help us.

You do realize that the opinions of an uninformed group have no relevance to the truth, right? Everyone and their brother could believe that the earth is flat, but that doesn't change a thing, does it? Rather, what matters and what should influence our opinions, on any subject, is the OBjective research of skilled experts. "I think" or "I believe" just doesn't matter.

[kevinmiller]

Btw, Rachel, your profile says you're not IFB.

[HappyChristian]

God said it so well:

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ

Colossians 2:8

Many, many people have been spoiled through the vain deceit of psychology. It is a school of thought which was created by God-haters. And we are supposed to feel we owe men like Freud? Not so!

FWIW - pt, I'm not uninformed on psychology. Just so you know. Be careful of blanket statements. You have no idea how many IFB might be quite familiar with psychology, so to assume lack of knowledge is not a wise thing.

[kevinmiller]

I'm assuming it based on her comments and the "education" she was given at school.
I don't think we owe anything to Freud, he was an ungodly man, to be sure. That doesn't mean that Christians can't study the mind and how it works from a Christian perspective. Tim Lahaye wrote the book "Spirit-Controlled Temperament" and it uses what we know about the choleric, sanguine, phlegmatic, and melancholy personality types to identify what personality we have and to help us better understand our weaknesses in light of Scripture and focusing on our God-given strengths and it's all done in accordance with the Bible.

[ptwild]

God said it so well:

Colossians 2:8

Many, many people have been spoiled through the vain deceit of psychology. It is a school of thought which was created by God-haters. And we are supposed to feel we owe men like Freud? Not so!

FWIW - pt, I'm not uninformed on psychology. Just so you know. Be careful of blanket statements. You have no idea how many IFB might be quite familiar with psychology, so to assume lack of knowledge is not a wise thing.

Happy: With all due respect, if you don't have a doctorate in something, you don't have the knowledge of it required to be considered an expert and, therefore, have no business pontificating on it. Reading a few articles on wikipedia simply does not suffice.

Psychology is a legitimate science with proven results. There is nothing to debate on that front. Further, OBjecting to something merely because non-Christians promote it will result in you OBjecting to everything from french fries to the moon.

[trc123]

You do realize that the opinions of an uninformed group have no relevance to the truth, right? Everyone and their brother could believe that the earth is flat, but that doesn't change a thing, does it? Rather, what matters and what should influence our opinions, on any subject, is the OBjective research of skilled experts. "I think" or "I believe" just doesn't matter.

Well my friend you are wrong when it comes to "thus saith the Lord." What you "believe" makes a great deal of difference.

[ptwild]

Well my friend you are wrong when it comes to "thus saith the Lord." What you "believe" makes a great deal of difference.

"thus saith the Lord" is not an OBjective science, so of course personal belief is relevant. I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

[HappyChristian]

I'm assuming it based on her comments and the "education" she was given at school.
I don't think we owe anything to Freud, he was an ungodly man, to be sure. That doesn't mean that Christians can't study the mind and how it works from a Christian perspective. Tim Lahaye wrote the book "Spirit-Controlled Temperament" and it uses what we know about the choleric, sanguine, phlegmatic, and melancholy personality types to identify what personality we have and to help us better understand our weaknesses in light of Scripture and focusing on our God-given strengths and it's all done in accordance with the Bible.

I have to admit, there is a lot to the temperament layout. I am choleric/melancholy/sanguine (what a mix!!! ).

I agree that Christians can study the mind - but I believe that it should be Bible based, not psychology based. Because psychology looks into the mind of man, some of it is accurate. But that is where the danger lies for so many: they don't have the discernment to see where the accuracy ends and humanism and vain deceit begin - and that is because their wisdom is of the earth, and not from above.

As far as her education - we don't know the extent of it, nor do we know the training her teachers had, so we cannot assume they are uninformed. They could very well be highly trained former psychologists who see the danger of it. I have in my files comparison charts for what psychology teaches and what the Bible teaches. And it truly is amazing how much psychology gets wrong!

Jay Adams is kinda, to my mind, the father of Christian psychology. PrOBlem is, a lot of what he taught was psychology with a little Bible thrown in (not all of it - I do like some of his counseling ideas). When we begin our thoughts separate from the Word of God, we are already in trouble.

As far as Rachel not being IFB - remember we do have non-IFB who come here to find out what IFB thoughts are on things. Perhaps that is her goal. I've actually enjoyed her posts. And she is dead-on with the psychotropic drugs given to so many kids. A little TLC would go a lot farther than Ritalin, et al (and true TLC would include discipline!).

[kevinmiller]

No, I just mentioned that because she was talking about how God should help us if IFB'ers are accepting Freud and Darwin so I assumed she was saying she was IFB.

[speerjp1]

I would recommend all to view the following video (in 6 parts) from The Berean Call called "Psychology and the Church: Critical Questions, Crucial Answers." If you would like to understand why some Christians, like myself, are extremely cautious and wary when it comes to any kind of psychology, you will be informed to a degree as to the reasoning behind our decision.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

I personally studied the social sciences such as sociology and psychology in a secular college, so my education cannot be said to have been biased against psychology in any way. In fact, I am amazed at how much psychology showed up in other coursework that had nothing to do with social science. However, after considering both sides of the issue, I have concluded that any theories developed by fathers of psychology are worthless inasmuch as they contain no coincidental truths already apparent in God's word.

[HappyChristian]

Happy: With all due respect, if you don't have a doctorate in something, you don't have the knowledge of it required to be considered an expert and, therefore, have no business pontificating on it. Reading a few articles on wikipedia simply does not suffice.

Psychology is a legitimate science with proven results. There is nothing to debate on that front. Further, OBjecting to something merely because non-Christians promote it will result in you OBjecting to everything from french fries to the moon.

I don't consider myself an expert. But I'll betcha I've had more training in psychology than you have. I realize you are a lawyer, and I know that there are classes that you may have taken on different things - but you aren't the only one who's had an education . I've studied psychology from several viewpoints - Freudian, Jungian, Skinner, and even Christian (from high school on...). And I'm not pontificating. I'm giving my opinion, just like you are. If you can, I can. And I've never read an article on wikipedia about psychology, thanks.

Oh, I don't OBject to psychology just because non-Christians promote it. (but if I want to for that reason, I can...this is still a free country - at least for a while, anyway ) I OBject to it because at its root it is anti-God and anti-Bible. You can claim it as a legitimate science with proven results (oh, for the days of the lOBotomies back - proven results from a legitimate science...), but if something is against God's Word, it's wrong. Period. No matter how it seems to work (and let's get real...look at our world today - d'ya REALLY think psychology is the answer?).

[Psalms18_28]

There are many other causes of depression. One major cause of depression comes from having a baby. It's called postpartum depression and it's a very real thing. It comes about as a result of the hormonal imbalance in a woman after giving birth. Multivitamins and supplements can do a lot to get the body back in balance during that time but it's a very real thing.

A lot of teenagers face the same hormonal imbalances that cause depression and frustration.

Not only that, but people face hard times such as losing a home, losing a family member, divorce and broken relationships that can cause depression. Yes, you can talk about how we should give all of our cares to God but we are imperfect humans and it does happen.

There are situation depression... like people who sudden lost their ability to walk and such.. Those things can be handled with counseling and some care and some prayers.

But the clinical depression, or people who constantly struggle to snap out of their depression even if they were saved and trust God. They may be able to stop themselves from hurting themselves and others because of religious conviction, but they still have trouble snap out of their depression and it has nothing to do with their spiritual prOBlem. You can have depression without the negative thoughts. They are the ones who need more just counseling.

[ptwild]

I don't consider myself an expert. But I'll betcha I've had more training in psychology than you have. I realize you are a lawyer, and I know that there are classes that you may have taken on different things - but you aren't the only one who's had an education . I've studied psychology from several viewpoints - Freudian, Jungian, Skinner, and even Christian (from high school on...). And I'm not pontificating. I'm giving my opinion, just like you are. If you can, I can. And I've never read an article on wikipedia about psychology, thanks.

Oh, I don't OBject to psychology just because non-Christians promote it. (but if I want to for that reason, I can...this is still a free country - at least for a while, anyway ) I OBject to it because at its root it is anti-God and anti-Bible. You can claim it as a legitimate science with proven results (oh, for the days of the lOBotomies back - proven results from a legitimate science...), but if something is against God's Word, it's wrong. Period. No matter how it seems to work (and let's get real...look at our world today - d'ya REALLY think psychology is the answer?).

I'm sure you have. And the reason I defer to the experts is because I myself am not an expert. And you are right, I am merely giving my opinion. However, my opinion is based on the OBjective findings of experts, not what "I think" or what "I believe." It's the product of fact, not convenience.

And I of course don't agree with everything Freud said. Thankfully, he is not the only psychiatrist (I don't believe he was a psychologist). And just because he was wrong about somethings, does not mean he was wrong about everything. And using lOBotomies to discredit psychology is very vain. Do you know how many people died from early attempts at heart transplants? Aren't you glad we didn't just toss that science away because of disasterous results.

Psychology is a valuable science. It has affected so many things from the way we teach and learn, to the way we treat a variety of illnesses. And I did take a two courses on the psychology of witnesses and juries in law school (though that still doesn't make me any type of expert) and I have employed what I learned in my practice with a lot of success. There is a science to pursuasion, and it begins with psychology.

[Psalms18_28]

I have to admit, there is a lot to the temperament layout. I am choleric/melancholy/sanguine (what a mix!!! ).

I agree that Christians can study the mind - but I believe that it should be Bible based, not psychology based. Because psychology looks into the mind of man, some of it is accurate. But that is where the danger lies for so many: they don't have the discernment to see where the accuracy ends and humanism and vain deceit begin - and that is because their wisdom is of the earth, and not from above.

As far as her education - we don't know the extent of it, nor do we know the training her teachers had, so we cannot assume they are uninformed. They could very well be highly trained former psychologists who see the danger of it. I have in my files comparison charts for what psychology teaches and what the Bible teaches. And it truly is amazing how much psychology gets wrong!

Jay Adams is kinda, to my mind, the father of Christian psychology. PrOBlem is, a lot of what he taught was psychology with a little Bible thrown in (not all of it - I do like some of his counseling ideas). When we begin our thoughts separate from the Word of God, we are already in trouble.

As far as Rachel not being IFB - remember we do have non-IFB who come here to find out what IFB thoughts are on things. Perhaps that is her goal. I've actually enjoyed her posts. And she is dead-on with the psychotropic drugs given to so many kids. A little TLC would go a lot farther than Ritalin, et al (and true TLC would include discipline!).

yes, the study of the mind is available for all, not certain person. It's like taking one specie and the person who discovered it would tell people, "NO, you can't study it, I deserve all the credit because I found it"