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OK, no mincing words. This reply is aimed at SAB76. The moderators have been fielding complaints from other members about your offensive manner in this thread. Divorce or some other doctrine is not the subject of this particular reply. Offensive language is the subject. Calling other Christians "Pharisaical" is offensive and not Christ like. I gave a warning back a few replies about this sort of thing. Once again you have chosen to ignore a moderator's warning in your reply that was worded in the following manner: "And I will keep stating what I have since the start. This is Pharisaical." If you had read the board rules posted by the owner of this board you would have seen the following: 8. We will not allow the following a) Bashing of other message boards. b) Bashing of your pastor or church. ** Online Baptist is a place for fellowship, disagreements you may have with others should not be handled here. c) Members that come just to argue doctrine instead of fellowship. This is your last warning; if you can participate in discussions civilly and fellowship in a Christian manner, you are welcome here. If you choose to continue as you have, your time here will have come to an end.

Woah there big boy......The only place I remember John saying anything to do with "low calibre" is: And yet you accuse him of saying: You need to be careful with your accusations, for that is not what John said, nor even what he implied. In fact, almost exactly the opposite. He didn't say they were defiling the church, and he didn't restrict the reason to only divorce - in fact he didn't even designate divorce specifically. And yet you go on a rant about all the other problems with churches today saying that John was ignoring those and suggesting it was ALL ABOUT DIVORCE. In fact, John's statement includes, not excludes all of these things, because it is a general statement. This is very close to a false accusation.

1 Thessalonians 2:14, "Followers of Other Good Churches" "For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews." 1 Thessalonians 2:14 The apostle Paul had previously shown how the churches, which were regional, or local, in Judaea, a region of Israel, had suffered intense persecution by their own countrymen. The Thessalonian saints willingly followed the examples of the churches, or assemblies, of the saints in Judaea in following Christ. And, because of their faith in following Christ, and His doctrines, the Thessalonian church was persecuted by their own countrymen. The apostle Paul is very clear in his meaning. The churches in Judaea were separate congregations of believers from the churches in Thessalonica. The two regions, or local areas, were not connected, or governed, in any manner, with any ecclesiastical hierarchy, bishop, Pope, Priest, denomination, or other governmental body. The church, as a body of believers, in Thessalonica willingly made the decision to follow the example of the good churches in Judaea. A true New Testament church does not have any ecclesiastical body over them. All New Testament churches, or assemblies, are independent and make their own decisions in church matters.

John, Your meaning was clear the first time your made it. SAB76 miss-used your clear meaning. Your second meaning is also very clear and worth repeating. Alan

Sentences within a paragraph carry on the same thought. New Paragraphs carry on a related but new thought. 1st paragraph is about Bishops being a reflection of Christ and that their infidelity or loyalty towards Christ and how that carries over to their own wives. Second is about the "Abandonment" argument being a sign of a hard heart and a reason many lack power. The third is my general opinion that GENERAL disregard for the qualification (not just divorce) is the reason our churches lack the power of God. The qualifications for the OFFICE are there for a reason and all I am saying is that churches should strive to get and hold men to the Highest standard of those qualifications that they can for the sanctity of the OFFICE and not make excuses for getting minimally and questionably qualified men for the OFFICE. To make this about us "not forgiving men" or about "how well" God used men in other capacities who were not qualified for this office, is wrong, and are false arguments.

I have to say, I appreciate the honesty of those who admit they are too weak to fast. Honesty is a good thing, but it also implies you know you ought to do it, and you know it will bring your walk with Christ somewhere it has never been before. So I ask: Is it worth it to you? Do you want a better relationship? But I also warn you: like anything we do when we seek to grow in Christ, it has its inherent dangers. The last time I fasted, I fasted for a week, because I wanted to gain some wisdom and seek god's will, as well as begin to improve my work as a pastor. Shortly after starting, my wife got sick. They said it was nothing, but a few days later, she went into the emergency room and didn't leave the hospital for 5 months, severely ill, almost dying. Listening to some preaching sermons to try to gains some balance as I reeled over what was happening, a sermon by my old pastor, who himself has done serious fasting, warned that when we fast, we need to keep in mind that things may occur that seem devastating at the moment, but are happening as a response to the fasting done to grow, and that helped immensely, as I fully realized this was god's will for some reason, and that through it all, there would be some spiritual gain. So when you fast, if you're truly looking for spiritual results, things can happen that may seem hard, but remember, a tree only bears more and better fruit when it is properly pruned from time to time. But is it worth it? Absolutely!