Topic #1 (Bible History Timeline)

[Jerry]

I realized after I went to bed last night that my reply might have come across in a wrong or mocking way, and if so I apologize. His By Grace, I have a prOBlem with the issue and with those who try to scare others about the KJV they have - I don't have a prOBlem with you. Actually, I really appreciate your desire to dig in and check out issues on these boards. That is how we will find answers and learn discernment.

[PreacherBen]

Here is an intresting question...The KJV1611 is well documented as far as the men who translated it and the situation surrounding the reason for it's translation. What about the Great Bible? King Henry approved on the translation of this being the first Authorized Version. I have never seen to much info on the Great Bible in all my research. What does anyone know about this? I will take some time to research this. Those of you who are intrested on this topic research it too. When I come back to work in three days lets place down some of the main points we have learned.

I hope this is a good openner.

God Bless!!!!!

Dear J_A_T,
I have been reading a secular book, God's Secretaries: The Making of the King James Bible,'. It's about the politcal and religious atmosphere in England at the time of the translation of the AV1611. The reason they steered away from use of the Great Bible is because under King Henry VIII, the church of England was almost a mirror image of Rome. Because of that, some of the words of choice in translation (of the Great Bible,) expressed its Catholicity (is that a word?).

King James was raised by the Coventers of Scotland and the Geneva gang had strong influence on the 1611. They were kept in check by the pro-church of England gang. They did not like the Geneva because it had too many references to the Pope being the antichrist in the footnotes. Though there was no love lost between England and Rome (Catholic terrorists tried to blow up King James,) but neither were they trying to unnecessarily cause hard feeling between England and Rome (prOBably for the reasons of commerce.)

If I were going to look at another faithful rendering of the TR in English, it would be the Geneva. Having said that, I believe God's hand of blessing has been on the KJV instead of the Geneva by it's historic preservation and continuance of use.

Bro. Ben

[JerryNumbers]

How about this verse?

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

It's not capitalized, but it is referring to the Holy Spirit - must not be a real KJV.

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Matthew 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Oh, not again - and that is in the NT.

Zechariah 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Psalms 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

Isaiah 40:7-8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counseller hath taught him?

Same Holy Spirit - even the same chapter! But not capitalized both times. Defective Bibles? Oh wait, all my Bibles are the same here.

Okay, here is one I remember that group making an issue of:

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Two Bibles I have in print on my table - one has a capital "S", one does not. Two Bible programs on my Ipod - one has a capital "S", one does not. Does it change the meaning? Both words mean the same. I believe the passage is clearly speaking about the Holy Spirit, as were those other verses - capital "s" or not, the Holy Spirit is in view. Do I wish all Bibles were consistent on this issue all the way through? Sure, is one Bible or one program any less trustworthy - should I care any less for the surrounding Bible context that will determine which spirit is in view? No.

I was referring to this.

1) I have a NT at home by Bearing Precious Seeds, and it does not even have all the "original spellings" that it is supposed to have!

2) I later learned "Bearing Precious Seeds" is an umbrella name standing for many INDEPENDENT printers that have no connection with each other beyond the fact that they all print the King James Bible.

I understand well the meaning of when Spirit is started with a capital letter and when a capital letter is not used. I started to state something about that, but it seemed you had covered it.

[Jerry]

This is the kind of article that is scaring people and needlessly creating alarm - notice the push for Bearing Precious Seed at the end.

Counterfeit KJV

Again, if the spelling or capitalization of a few words makes a Bible bad, then ALL KJV's are counterfeit because ALL KJV's have lower case "s"s in various places when the Holy Spirit is OBviously in view, as I have shown above - and there are many other passages that do that too. I just listed a few places.

If a particular publisher takes too many liberties or consistently (by that, I mean, in all their products - I have several Bibles from the same publisher and not all the changes are in all of them) changes spelling of words or some capitalization, then I will choose not to buy Bibles from them or be very cautious when I do - BUT I will not go overboard and create a stumbling block to other believers or the lost who may be interested in reading the Bible by stating those Bibles are counterfeit, untrustworthy, perhaps even demonic. Then those people will be so paranoid and divisive and will never trust ANY KJV's.

If a wacky preacher puts out his own study Bible with his own notes and you see the text has been changed, then I would stay away from that ministry. For example, I found a large print KJV in a second hand bookstore that had an Intro by Jerry Falwell (for the record, I stay away from Falwell anyway), and pictures of "Jesus", plus some other immodest artwork (half-dressed angels or Bible characters). It has most of those spelling changes and capitalization changes. I kept the Bible so I could give it to someone whose vision was failing. I warned against any notes Falwell might have had in there - but I did not create an alarm about the Bible. I am glad the person had a KJV to read! But I would not order or purchase Bibles from him or ministries selling "his" Bibles in the future.

[futurehope]

Jerry,

This is somewhat not fair of me to enter this conversation as I won't be able to continue in it in deapthly, so, I am going to make a surface level statement that maybe some of you can discuss and, hopefully, I will check back in in a couple of days to share more. Just from looking at the list of verses you shared, I'm not entirely sure that they all are indeed referring to the Holy Spirit, but, instead, some of them are referring to the "spirit" of God the Father or the "heart" of God. I do believe a large majority of them are referring to the Holy Spirit, but not all. Just something for consideration and discussion. Again though, I do appologize for not giving a lot of detail and not being able to fully discuss this right now (at least not for a few days).

God Bless and good studying,

Futurehope

[Jerry]

I agree that some of these may or may not be referring to the Holy Spirit - but I believe some passages with a small "s" OBviously are. Do I throw out my Bible or question it because it is not a capital "S"? No, I just need to pay attention to the context and pray for wisdom when studying God's Word.

[futurehope]

I agree that some of these may or may not be referring to the Holy Spirit - but I believe some passages with a small "s" OBviously are. Do I throw out my Bible or question it because it is not a capital "S"? No, I just need to pay attention to the context and pray for wisdom when studying God's Word.

Agreed.

[JerryNumbers]

No doubt, nowadays, they be people out there with an agenda and would slip in and do harm to the KJ Bible.