The Repentance Issue::: revisited

[Carrierwave~]

Romans 10:1-4

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Notice, the subject of Rom. 10:1-4 is the SALVATION of Israel; ..."that they might be saved".

Israel's spiritual problem was one of TRUST. They were trusting the wrong thing! "...going about to establish their own righteousness and have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

ISRAEL NEEDED TO "CHANGE THEIR MINDS" (repent); stop trusting their "dead" WORKS for salvation, and start trusting Christ's WORK for salvation.

There are really only 2 religions in the world-- saved by my WORKS, or --saved by Christ's WORK. This is the salvation "repentance" throughout the Bible. Adam and Eve repented and traded their "fig leaves" for bloody "coats of skins" made by God. Cain trusted the WORKS of his own hands--Abel trusted in the BLOOD OF A LAMB!

"Repentance" for salvation is the same today for ALL men and women. Hebrews 6:1 "..Repentance from dead works and faith toward God". OUR CHOICE: trust in your own WORKS, or trust in Christ's WORK at Calvary.

Dead works are ALL WORKS. "Repentance" here is NOT ?turning from your sins?, but acknowledging our own sinfulness and inability to save ourselves and flee to Christ for His righteousness. "Turning from sins" is the exact opposite of GRACE salvation. Sinners can only be saved by GRACE because SINNERS HAVE NO MERIT. (Romans 3:19-20) Establishing your own righteousness (turning from sin) for salvation is WORKS salvation; no different from Israel's error, or Cain's vegetables. It is WORKS. Grace and works are like oil and water; they cannot be mixed. "REPENTANCE" at SALVATION is FROM our dead works, TO Christ's RIGHTEOUSNESS. What are you trusting in??

Carrierwave~

[Guest Guest]

A lot of times it sounds like that, Janine. Repentance (a change of mind) is required, since we do have to choose Christ- but a lot of people try to redefine repentance to mean something that it does not, and I think it's this wrong definition that you feel is works based. True repentance has no attachment to works (although after we are saved, our lives should reflect it). It simply means "a change of mind". It doesn't mean you have to change your mind and then change your actions (aka clean yourself up before you can get saved). That's where a lot of people get confused and take the path of works-based salvation. They believe God won't forgive us until we clean ourselves up, but that's not true.

Some people don't like the Greek, but the the word for repentance was in Greek before it was in English, so lets look there:

Luke 13:3 (just a random verse I picked out that contains the word repent)
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent (με

[Carrierwave~]

Conversion means turning - true repentance (which is a change of mind resulting in a change of conduct) would certainly involve turning from sin to the Lord' date=' but they are different concepts. One involves our mind and heart - the other involves what we do. There are OT passages that refer to turning from sin, turning to the Lord - those would be converting from one state to the other. Converting may or may not be in reference to salvation - it depends upon the context of the person using the term. For example, James 5 uses it in reference to a backslidden believer converting from the error of his ways, from the sin he has wandered into, back to the Lord.[/quote']

Hello, Jerry

To rightly divide the Word, redemption must have 2 parts: Example: Ephesians 2:8,9 and Ephesians 2:10

"Salvation" of the Soul by GRACE alone, and "Sanctification" of the LIFE or CONVERSION.

Both are part of the redemption plan of God, however they must be kept separate. Salvation produces "eternal life", whereas Sanctification (conversion) produces "fruit". A "change of mind" (repentance) is an important component in BOTH.

But "repentance" at salvation AND "repentance" in sanctification (conversion) are completely different.

"True repentance" at SALVATION is a "change" in your TRUST. At SALVATION the Holy Ghost convicts that you must "repent" FROM all TRUST in yourself and your works to save you because you are a sinner. Then the Holy Ghost convinces you must "repent" TO complete TRUST in Jesus Christ alone to save you because He is RIGHTEOUS.

This is true repentance at SALVATION.

"Repentance" at Sanctification (conversion) is different, because the PURPOSE is different. You "repent" at sanctification (conversion), NOT TO BE SAVED, but to produce good works and FRUIT for God.

Confusion in caused when these 2 parts are combined; every false doctrine and heresy concerning salvation comes from not rightly dividing these TWO truths. These TWO aspects of redemption must be kept separate because BOTH do not save. Only one saves--repentance at salvation.

True repentance at "salvation" makes you BORN AGAIN.

True repentance at "conversion" brings a changed life and FRUIT for God.

Carrierwave~

[heartstrings]

22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. 23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely: 24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.

25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. 26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

[Carrierwave~]

I believe you must "change your thinking" when you get saved. There are only two religions in the world; salvation by your works or salvation by GRACE thru Jesus Christ.

Before one is saved, they are dead in trespasses and sins--works. (Ephesians 2:1)(Colossians 2:13). Everyone who does not believe in Jesus Christ as Savior is trusting their works. There are only these two choices. The Gospel is preached to "change the minds" of those who are saved by their works to put their faith and trust in Christ's work at Calvary. When you hear the Word preached and are convinced by the Spirit of God you have a need to trust Christ, the moment you exercise your God-given faith in Jesus Christ you have had a change of mind and trust. This is repentance for salvation.

Repentance is NOT a condition for salvation but a transition of trust. The idea espoused by many is that repent means to "turn from your sins". This implies one must do something with his sins other than give them to Christ for atonement. A synonym for "turn from your sins" is DO WORKS OF THE LAW. Sins are a transgression of the Law (1John 3:4). If you "TURN" from transgressing the Law, you MUST START KEEPING THE LAW!

Requiring a sinner to stop sinning and "do the works of the Law" to be saved is Lordship Salvation; a false doctrine taught by David Cloud, Ray Comfort, Paul Washer, John McCarthur and many others. Many are just adding Jesus to their list of must-do works for salvation. This is the crowd whom Jesus spoke of who had done many wonderful works, yet HE NEVER KNEW THEM. These go away unsaved still in their sins.

Carrierwave~

[1Timothy115]

Thanks again for removing the non-repenter. I was preparing a post to tell him I reject his thoughts as heresy.

[trc123]

Thanks again for removing the non-repenter. I was preparing a post to tell him I reject his thoughts as heresy.

So, is repentance (180 degree turn) a turn in one's thinking/believing thus facilitating salvation which results in a change of works?

Or is it a turn in one's works as a prerequisite to being salvation?

[Guest Guest]

So, is repentance (180 degree turn) a turn in one's thinking/believing thus facilitating salvation which results in a change of works?

Yes. It is a heart change as apposed to mere verbal agreement as easy believism teaches.

Or is it a turn in one's works as a prerequisite to being salvation?

No.

[trc123]

Yes. It is a heart change as apposed to mere verbal agreement as easy believism teaches.



No.

Okay, I agree with that!

[Guest Guest]

Why all the debate?

[trc123]

Why all the debate?

I'm not sure; I can't figure it out. Seems to me some were disagreeing, even though they agreed!

[Guest Guest]

It is the same guy again.

[John81]

Requiring a sinner to stop sinning and "do the works of the Law" to be saved is Lordship Salvation; a false doctrine taught by David Cloud, Ray Comfort, Paul Washer, John McCarthur and many others. Many are just adding Jesus to their list of must-do works for salvation. This is the crowd whom Jesus spoke of who had done many wonderful works, yet HE NEVER KNEW THEM. These go away unsaved still in their sins.

Carrierwave~

Just to keep the record straight for those who may not know, the above quote is false.

[Guest Guest]

Well, only partially, the part of his post you quote is describing a false doctrine, but David Cloud certainly doesn't teach that. "Turning from your sins" isn't a "work", it is a heart change. There are many who will say that they believe in God, Christ, etc. but their whole lives show that there was no heart change. They are completely comfortable living like the world. That shows there was no repentance. You don't have to change to get saved, but if you do get saved there will be some changes. If a person can go on living his life exactly the same with no changes, then that person never got saved in the first place.

[John81]

John MacArthur and Ray Comfort don't teach that either (don't know what Paul Washer teaches). Also, from what I have read, true "Lordship Salvation" doesn't teach that either. True Lordship salvation teaches that if a person is truly born again then that will be reflected by them not only claiming and acceping Christ as their Saviour, but also as their Lord; which is reflected by the fact they seek to obey His Words. There are many today who preach we must have Christ as Saviour but totally leave out the aspect that we must accept Him as our Lord as well. Christ is our Lord AND Saviour, not just our Saviour.

Yes, true repentance, being born again does indeed lead to a changed life. There are some who proclaim one can be saved and yet continue living just as they did before. I believe that's a very wicked teaching akin to the easy believism teaching which misleads people into believing they can say a simple "Jesus come into my heart" prayer and that's it, they are saved and can go on about their lives.