Messianic Congregations or Church?

[LindaR]

Here's a question that comes up within the Messianic movement. When a Jewish person gets saved, should he/she join a Church or a Messianic congregation? As a born again Jew myself, I did join a Messianic congregation and was part of that movement for many years until I really started studying the Scriptures and saw the "legalism" of the Messianic movement and left it. Here is a short portion of a Berean Call Newsletter from December, 1997 which I think pinpoints this problem:

The Galatian problem remains (in varying degrees) within some so-called Hebrew-Christian or Messianic congregations today. There is often a tendency to imagine that a return to Jewish customs (even by Gentiles) makes for greater sanctity. Extrabiblical traditions are honored, for example in the Seder ceremony at Passover, as though inspired of God. Scripture alone must be our guide, to the exclusion of manmade traditions, which Christ condemned (Mt 15:1-9; Mk 7:9-13), as did the apostles (Gal 1:13-14; Col 2:8; 1 Pt 1:18). Traditions developed over the centuries have led to great error within both Catholicism and Protestantism.

We must ever remember that Christ intended the church to be something new and separate from Israel. It would neither partake of nor interfere with God's promises to His earthly people, promises which will be fulfilled in their time. The church would be separate, too, from Israel's religious ordinances. Here, again, the cults have gone astray.
http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter/html/1997/dec97.php

Messianic Judaism focuses more on the "Jewishness/Hebrew Roots" of the Gospel than on the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. In addition, Messianic Judaism has many "offshoots/sects" and not all believe the same things--i.e. some Messianics do not believe in the deity of Christ, etc.

Has anybody had any experience in witnessing to the Jewish people? Please share your thoughts.

[anime4christ]

I'm sorta in the same boat. My parents wanted to join a Messianic congregation at one point but then decided against cuz the false teachings there are way too evident (to those who study the Bible). A Jewish friend of mine, who came to Christ about 4 years ago first joined the Messianic congregation. He loved studying the Bible though, and later left and became a Pentecostal (unfortunately not a Baptist). IMHO, you have to either never study your Bible or be willingly ignorant of what it says to stay in a Messianic congregation. Trying to set them straight is pretty hard though, they often don't listen. I guess it's a pride issue.

[LindaR]

Check out this website. It has alot of information on the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movement. I am finding it very helpful.

http://www.seekgod.ca/embraceintro.htm

[RandyW]

Has anybody had any experience in witnessing to the Jewish people? Please share your thoughts.

Yes - some random thoughts

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

If even unintentional sin required the act of the High Priest how can one write off deliberate sin apart from Christ Jesus? Deliberate sin was not left unpunished. The punishments for deliberate sin are written in the law. Thats why the act of the high priest was only for unintentional sin. Christ Jesus fulfilled the requirements, (punishments), of the law for all that believe upon Him.

We have contradictory testimony that better explains the absence of the high priest on earth then what you have been taught.

I read the law and the punishments for deliberate sin as did Paul. You have Pauls expert testimony on the Law. Paul made a 180 degree turn regarding Jesus and started promoting Jesus and His message. Paul like the other 11 Apostles gave the testimony of who appointed him to this task. In Pauls appointment Jesus was very much alive.

The covenant you claim to be under is a law of sacrifices and offerings, which you don't keep. What sets you apart from other people in "God's" eyes? The law you don't keep?

It has has been stated by others, "they presented their case to the Jews, their case was rejected". " My reply:They who presented" were children of Abraham. Those who rejected the testimony of the new covenant were destroyed by their enemies as a result of their insurrection against the established authority. God did not deliver them. What does that tell you? Why would I follow their example?

The entire new testament speaks to us of the introduction of the new covenant. How does God write the new covenant on our hearts? In the last days I will pour out my Spirit....

Jesus is the Judge of the living and the dead. All come before Him. Many will be told "I don't know you", which isn't the full gospel message but a important one for those who don't believe that they may understand the eternal consequences of their choice.

[LindaR]

Since I have started this thread way back in February, I have been doing some study on Messianic Judaism. One of the statements I have read : The saved Gentiles are grafted into Israel and thus become a part of the "commonwealth of Israel"--not a member of the Body of Christ. This isn't an exact quote (I've been reading alot of unbiblical stuff from those who call themselves "Messianic Jews").

Brothers and sisters in Christ, these folks (Messianic Jews) teach and preach that there is NO church--only the "commonwealth of Israel" and a saved Gentile is a member of that (not the church) and thus "still under the Law/Torah. I saw this happening when I was part of the Messianic movement--which was the reason I left--sounds like the error of Galatianism all over again.

[John81]

I studied this a bit, many years ago, and Messianic Jews seem to want to be traditional Jews with Jesus on the side.

There was a program on TV back in the early 90s I watched that was on this topic. The show was hosted by born-again Jews who were trying to lead Jews to Christ and to get those Jews who were in Christ, to realize they were now under grace and not the law. I can't remember the name of the program, but I recall I found it very interesting at the time.

[LindaR]

I studied this a bit, many years ago, and Messianic Jews seem to want to be traditional Jews with Jesus on the side.

There was a program on TV back in the early 90s I watched that was on this topic. The show was hosted by born-again Jews who were trying to lead Jews to Christ and to get those Jews who were in Christ, to realize they were now under grace and not the law. I can't remember the name of the program, but I recall I found it very interesting at the time.

I was led to Christ by a Gentile who understood Judaism better than some Jews (like me). I was involved in the Messianic movement for many years--then the LORD opened my eyes to the fact that once a Gentile is involved with a Messianic Congregation, they seem to be "drawn" to the "Jewishness" and the traditions of the Jews, rather than to Christ. Gentiles were being put back under the Law/Torah--which was the same error of the Galatians. Believe me, the Messianics say that you are saved by grace (but in order to remain saved, you have to keep the Sabbath and become Torah Observant). Been there--done that.

I found that leading a Jew to Christ is the same as leading a Gentile to Christ--being aware of their sensitivities and definitions about who is a true "Christian"---most Jews believe that ALL Gentiles are Christians--and Christianity is represented by the RCC--at least that is what I used to think. Jesus Christ needs to be the focus, not Jewishness.

[John81]

"Jesus Christ needs to be the focus, not Jewishness." :amen:

[DaveW]

I have known a Messianic Jew, and as far as I could tell he was pretty much straight down the line.

He certainly is under grace, but he is also still a Jew.

He was careful of his testimony before unconverted Jews, so as not to be a stumblingblock before them.

I beleive that just as in "Christian" churches there is a great variation of beliefs within them, and the term "Messianic congregation" is very much like the term "Christian church" in that it is a general term encompassing a wide group.

In other words, there are good ones and bad ones, and you would ahve to check them out before joining to them - but with the Messianics there would be an extra aspect of dealing with the Jewishness in a Biblical way.

I can see it as being an effective witnessing tool for Jews, as they may feel more at ease with other Jews than with Gentiles.

[Jerry]

The thing is, Dave, the NT - which is the guide book for all professing believers, whether Jews or Gentiles - itself teaches we are not bound by the OT ceremonial laws. Many or most of these messianic Jews ARE bringing their congregations under the OT law in a way that is not binding on the NT believer - and by their refusal to accept and live by all the NT has to say, are causing others to stumble and even leading others astray (in some cases, leading them AWAY from salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ). Various Messianic groups are actually setting themselves up over the Gentile believers, claiming to restore true Christianity or Judaism and the true Biblical text (ie. their rewritten "Hebrew New Testament". Those groups that call themselves or associate themselves with the Hebrew Roots movement are not teaching truth, but error.

And, no, I am not lumping all Messianic Jews together. But the true Messianic Jew (Biblically speaking) would live by the NT as much as the true believing Gentile. God does not have differing standards or focus for the NT Jew and the NT Gentile. That is a false disctinction. Today, in the church age, God considers us all one in Him - all on the same ground and footing before Him.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[DaveW]

Agree - In Christ all are one - there is no Jew and no Gentile.

I see value in it only as a tool to reach unsaved Jews who may be more inclined to listen in that setting.

Having said that, we are not involved with and do not support any Messianic Christian group.

I do not see a need for it, just a possible reason for it.

There is no spiritual superiority, nor even difference.

[LindaR]

Agree - In Christ all are one - there is no Jew and no Gentile.

Amen!! My being born Jewish has NOTHING to do with my faith in Christ.

I see value in it only as a tool to reach unsaved Jews who may be more inclined to listen in that setting.

I was saved outside that setting--in a Presbyterian church, at an ecumenical World Day of Prayer service. It was not so much what was said at that service (because I really wasn't paying too much attention to the preacher), but it was God's Word (Romans 10:17) spoken through a born again Gentile lady who was very knowledgeable about Judaism and studied it for 2 years before she even met me. It can be an effective witness tool (a Messianic Congregation), but, like I said, the focus needs to be on Christ alone, not "Jewishness" or "Jewish traditions or settings".

Having said that, we are not involved with and do not support any Messianic Christian group.

I do not see a need for it, just a possible reason for it.

I agree with that. Messianic groups don't consider themselves to be "Christian"--in fact, some groups despise the word "Christian" and the word "cross". They like to redefine terms to fit the "Hebrew Roots" doctrines. The possible reason for Messianic groups/congregations is to allow the new Jewish believer to keep his/her "identity" as a Jew--as if they would lose it? I will keep saying: It's Christ NOT "Jewishness"!

There is no spiritual superiority, nor even difference.

That is the danger--and there are many Gentile Christians who fall into the trap of "wannabe" Jewish--instead of being a member of the body of Christ.

[LindaR]

The thing is, Dave, the NT - which is the guide book for all professing believers, whether Jews or Gentiles - itself teaches we are not bound by the OT ceremonial laws. Many or most of these messianic Jews ARE bringing their congregations under the OT law in a way that is not binding on the NT believer - and by their refusal to accept and live by all the NT has to say, are causing others to stumble and even leading others astray (in some cases, leading them AWAY from salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ). Various Messianic groups are actually setting themselves up over the Gentile believers, claiming to restore true Christianity or Judaism and the true Biblical text (ie. their rewritten "Hebrew New Testament". Those groups that call themselves or associate themselves with the Hebrew Roots movement are not teaching truth, but error.

And, no, I am not lumping all Messianic Jews together. But the true Messianic Jew (Biblically speaking) would live by the NT as much as the true believing Gentile. God does not have differing standards or focus for the NT Jew and the NT Gentile. That is a false disctinction. Today, in the church age, God considers us all one in Him - all on the same ground and footing before Him.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

I didn't see your post until AFTER I posted my answer to Dave--didn't see that he was answering your post. I believe we pretty much agree that the true Messianic Jew (Biblically speaking) does live by the NT as does his believing Gentile brother or sister.

The Hebrew Roots movement is a branch of the Messianic movement and they are drawing Gentile believers back under the Torah and the ceremonial laws. It is a dangerous movement.

Great post, Jerry!

[Jerry]

There are a lot of good articles on Vicky Dillen's website exposing the Hebrew Roots Movement: http://www.seekgod.ca/topichr.htm

[LindaR]

Here's another good website exposing the false teachings of the HRM/Messianic Judaism:

http://www.hopeofisrael.net/

This is a Baptist Mission to the Jewish people...definitely NOT Messianic, but has tremendous amount of information about Jewish Missions which are done through the local church. Our church had a missionary couple from International Board of Jewish Missions/IBJM http://www.ibjm.org This couple is involved in Jewish evangelism in the city of Atlanta, GA (there is a huge Jewish population there). They work through their local church. This Jewish mission is also not involved with the Messianic Jewish movement/Hebrew Roots Movement and steer Jewish babes in Christ away from Messianic congregations to mainly Baptist/KJV churches. The main objective is to disciple these new Christians and not allow them to strike out on their own (which would probably be into a Messianic congregation...as I did so many years ago).