Hand holding....

[Guest Guest]

It must be wrong, Kathie, it might make you go further. I'd definetly stop talking to him and looking at him, because that's fleshly and it can be proven from the Bible. It doesn't matter that you believe he's "the one" you shouldn't have feelings of attraction for each other until you are married. You first need to get your parents to arrange a marriage for you, and then give you rules on how to get to know your guy they are forcing you to marry.

Ok, sarcasm over.

Katy-Anne

Really, you've got a point...that's what this kind of logic leads to. Passionate kissing before marriage and anything sexual is completely wrong, but there's nothing wrong with a little bit of showing each other that you care about each other.

Again, I am not going to kiss before marriage, but I won't condemn anyone who does. I know lots of pastors that kissed their wife before they got married. These people are still married today.

[auburn_tiger]

Ok here is the Greek def of "to touch"

haptomai

1) to fasten one's self to, adhere to, cling to

a) to touch

of carnal intercourse with a women or cohabitation

c) of levitical practice of having no fellowship with heathen practices. Things not to be touched appear to be both women and certain kinds of food, so celibacy and abstinence of certain kinds of food and drink are recommended.

d) to touch, assail anyone

From what I have heard preached/taught on this passage the context is dealing with marriage and fornication. I believe that the passage is talking about any contact (touching) that is of a sexual nature.

With that being said. If you believe that holding hands is a contact of a sexual nature then by all means stick to your guns. If you believe that holding hands in not a contact of a sexyal nature then by all means stick to your guns.

I believe that holding hands is not of a sexual contact. But I do support the OP in this not because of holding hands but the simple fact that the sons is in rebellion.

[Madeline]

Ohhh yeah, I know exactly what you mean...I've seen it so many times, and it's really sad; kids "going out" just for that "emotional rush" that comes from being in a relationship. Though they might not even touch each other, they become they become what I call "emotionally immoral," or just whores with emotions (or whore mongers, whatever you want to call it :tum ).

I am in a relationship because I fully and completely intend to marry the person I'm dating. I believe God put her and I together for that purpose, and that purpose only. She's my first girlfriend, and she'll be the first girl I kiss (other than a Latin greeting...social customs :cooldude: ). I think that people shouldn't even date until they believe they have found the mate that God has prepared for them. Not that marrying someone else will totally screw up God's will for everyone else in the world, but I do think that the Lord knows you well enough to match you up with someone very special. Not that I'm a genius when it comes to relationships (far from it, actually!), but I have experienced that hand of God in my life, bringing me to meet someone very special.

I think that you're doing it the RIGHT way and I agree with you. You have a special opportunity that most young folks today sacrifice for short term pleasure. Is your girlfriend of the same mind as you, and as innocent as you (with regards to sexual contact)? If so, I think you have wonderful God-given opportunity. If she has already experienced some physical contact, I would tread carefully to the degree that she has "experienced". (in other words, if she has kissed or held hands... Just be sure she shares your commitment to purity, and DO NOT waiver in your standards; if she has had an actual sexual experience, I would proceed very, very carefully and consider that your commitment to purity deserves a future wife with the same commitment.) And concerning physical contact prior to marriage, I would encourage you to say NO! to anything MORE than hugging, holding hands, or kissing. And for those (kiss, hold hands, hug) I would establish VERY clear boundaries and plans as you head towards marriage.

Love,
Madeline

[Guest Guest]

I think that you're doing it the RIGHT way and I agree with you. You have a special opportunity that most young folks today sacrifice for short term pleasure. Is your girlfriend of the same mind as you, and as innocent as you (with regards to sexual contact)? If so, I think you have wonderful God-given opportunity. If she has already experienced some physical contact, I would tread carefully to the degree that she has "experienced". (in other words, if she has kissed or held hands... Just be sure she shares your commitment to purity, and DO NOT waiver in your standards; if she has had an actual sexual experience, I would proceed very, very carefully and consider that your commitment to purity deserves a future wife with the same commitment.) And concerning physical contact prior to marriage, I would encourage you to say NO! to anything MORE than hugging, holding hands, or kissing. And for those (kiss, hold hands, hug) I would establish VERY clear boundaries and plans as you head towards marriage.

Love,
Madeline

I can answer those questions for you. His girlfriend is of the same mind, is definitely innocent in regards to sexual contact, and has never experienced physical contact with a guy (not even holding hands or kissing...at all).

[Madeline]

I can answer those questions for you. His girlfriend is of the same mind, is definitely innocent in regards to sexual contact, and has never experienced physical contact with a guy (not even holding hands or kissing...at all).

Well, as for holding hands or kissing...If you (anyone) have established a genuine mutual commitment to court towards marriage, then I don't see the problem. But I would encourage to set boundaries and plans as you head towards marriage. Such as...

- no "making out" (long sessions of kissing and body contact)
- do not allow yourselves to BE ALONE for long periods of time in private; you can "be alone" in the living room of your parents home whilst they are in the other room; you can have PRIVACY without having dangerous lack of supervision and accountability
- no sexual contact of any kind which would include prolonged full body hugs, touching (even on the outsides of clothes) on intimate areas (chest, behind, lower back, upper legs, etc)

I'm as curious to know if he and his girlfriend agrees with this. And since they are both of the same mind...then I would say that they have a PRECIOUS gift that VERY few people today get to have. Protect it at all costs, and they will experience a lifetime of Godly blessing.

Love,
Madeline

[SarahStrawberry]

Finally a good, sensible post on here. Well done Kathie.

Sarah, when Jordan and I held hands there was NO rebellion involved. My father WANTED us to do it, and his parents recognized the fact that he was an adult, which a lot of IFB parents have trouble doing with their children.

Katy-Anne

But katy, this isn't about you and whether or not you were in rebellion. This is about the OP's son and the fact that he is in rebellionn by holding hands because his parents are against it. See that?

[Guest Guest]

Well, as for holding hands or kissing...If you (anyone) have established a genuine mutual commitment to court towards marriage, then I don't see the problem. But I would encourage to set boundaries and plans as you head towards marriage. Such as...

- no "making out" (long sessions of kissing and body contact)
- do not allow yourselves to BE ALONE for long periods of time in private; you can "be alone" in the living room of your parents home whilst they are in the other room; you can have PRIVACY without having dangerous lack of supervision and accountability
- no sexual contact of any kind which would include prolonged full body hugs, touching (even on the outsides of clothes) on intimate areas (chest, behind, lower back, upper legs, etc)

I'm as curious to know if he and his girlfriend agrees with this. And since they are both of the same mind...then I would say that they have a PRECIOUS gift that VERY few people today get to have. Protect it at all costs, and they will experience a lifetime of Godly blessing.

Love,
Madeline

lol, I might as well tell you...I'm his girlfriend. And we agree on standards and have very high standards set. The only standard we've "broken" (by permission of our parents) is that we were alone on our first date. I rode with him in his car and we went out to eat together....it was completely innocent.

[Anon]

Gee, what part of "It is good for a man not to touch a woman" don't people understand?

Obviously if I shake the hand of another man, its a "hi" greeting. Obviously if I go around the mall holding hands with a guy its because you like/love him. BIG difference. Second one is forbidden, in Biblical context. First one goes along with the "holy kiss" greeting.

Its fine those who believe its ok to hold hands, kiss, whatever. HOWEVER....it is very wrong to mock a higher standard, and it is also very wrong to condemn a father for trying to keep his kids pure. Some of you are still kids yourself...you haven't a clue how to raise a teen.

[Madeline]

lol, I might as well tell you...I'm his girlfriend. And we agree on standards and have very high standards set. The only standard we've "broken" (by permission of our parents) is that we were alone on our first date. I rode with him in his car and we went out to eat together....it was completely innocent.

Lol, I knew he was your boyfriend. Either way, be glad you have parents that care, and I'm sure you do. Your purity is the single greatest factor to physical and emotional fulfillment in your marriage bed. It would be a small sacrifice to give these things up now to honor our parents, compared to the blessing and satisfaction we will receive for the rest of our life knowing that we entered marriage honorably, pure and with a clear conscience. I didn't listen to my parents in the past, which is why I had made some of the wrong decisions with my boyfriends. I'm sure you're not dumb enough to make the same mistakes I made.

Love,
Madeline

[Guest Guest]

Lol, I knew he was your boyfriend. Either way, be glad you have parents that care, and I'm sure you do. Your purity is the single greatest factor to physical and emotional fulfillment in your marriage bed. It would be a small sacrifice to give these things up now to honor our parents, compared to the blessing and satisfaction we will receive for the rest of our life knowing that we entered marriage honorably, pure and with a clear conscience. I didn't listen to my parents in the past, which is why I had made some of the wrong decisions with my boyfriends. I'm sure you're not dumb enough to make the same mistakes I made.

Love,
Madeline

Yes, our parents do care...he has really awesome parents that love the Lord! His parents are in agreement with my parents on many important issues, and that is such a blessing. When I was 12, I made the decision to stay pure till marriage and not to rebel against my parents' rules. Of course, being a teenager is hard, but it's never worth it to rebel against authority, no matter how unfair it is.

The only thing that bothers me is when I see other teenagers pushed to rebellion due to unfair authority, but I guess it's something I shouldn't talk about, no matter how tough that is. :saint Maybe it's an oxymoron that I'd defend a teenager that has parents that are too strict, but I'm submissive to the authority in my life even when other people think my parents are too strict. (I think that made sense, I'm not sure though )

[Anon]

The only thing that bothers me is when I see other teenagers pushed to rebellion due to unfair authority

This is false.

I could tell you about one family I know of right now and even I think the authority is completely unfair (you don't wanna know, it far outreaches the scope of this discussion) yet the teen girls are as sweet spirited and godly as they come. Just because parents might be "too strict" is NOT an excuse or even a reason for rebellion. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and can only be blamed on the person rebelling. Check out Dave Pelzer, the severely abused child of "A Boy Called It". (On second thought, don't.... its rough reading.) He was not rebellious (he was not saved either) and had no chance at a decent life yet he chose to make something of himself, somehow. No teenager is ever "pushed to rebellion"...it is something he chooses. Keep in mind that with your viewpoint, you may be the one helping a teen to rebel by encouraging him/her that parents are unfair just because they might be stricter than your parents. Guess what, I lived around an awful lot of "helpful" teens like this, who loved to notice that my parents didn't let me do half the stuff THEIR parents let them do. So what? Look at my life now and look at theirs. Teens don't know everything. And the Bible says we are to honor our parents. Not only that, but it also tells us to obey our masters, not only to the good ones, but ALSO to the "froward" ones. God says "I don't care what they do, its YOUR job to do what is right."

I say all that to say....no matter what your parents do, you are never "pushed to rebellion". Its a choice.

[IM4given]

:goodpost: :amen:

[Guest Guest]

This is false.

I could tell you about one family I know of right now and even I think the authority is completely unfair (you don't wanna know, it far outreaches the scope of this discussion) yet the teen girls are as sweet spirited and godly as they come. Just because parents might be "too strict" is NOT an excuse or even a reason for rebellion. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and can only be blamed on the person rebelling. Check out Dave Pelzer, the severely abused child of "A Boy Called It". (On second thought, don't.... its rough reading.) He was not rebellious (he was not saved either) and had no chance at a decent life yet he chose to make something of himself, somehow. No teenager is ever "pushed to rebellion"...it is something he chooses. Keep in mind that with your viewpoint, you may be the one helping a teen to rebel by encouraging him/her that parents are unfair just because they might be stricter than your parents. Guess what, I lived around an awful lot of "helpful" teens like this, who loved to notice that my parents didn't let me do half the stuff THEIR parents let them do. So what? Look at my life now and look at theirs. Teens don't know everything. And the Bible says we are to honor our parents. Not only that, but it also tells us to obey our masters, not only to the good ones, but ALSO to the "froward" ones. God says "I don't care what they do, its YOUR job to do what is right."

I say all that to say....no matter what your parents do, you are never "pushed to rebellion". Its a choice.

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Just wondering...since this is after the verse about children obeying parents, doesn't this mean that there is a way for parents to make their children angry with them, due to unfairness? Maybe rebellion was the wrong word...since rebellion is like disobedience, but children can definitely be upset about their parents rules if they are unfair...whether they show it or not.

I'm not totally sure about it, but that's what came to mind after reading your post.

[Anon]

I do not think "provoking to wrath" means making rules Dad thinks are Biblical. I believe its being a mean, angry, unfair parent...not a parent making boundaries out of love. However yes God sets rules for each member of the family to follow. Just because one member drops their ball doesn't give excuse for the other members to drop theirs.

[Guest Guest]

Ok..that makes sense. I guess it's sometimes hard being a teenager..I know I don't always agree with rules my parents make but I have to obey them anyway. Not everyone is as blessed as I am to have parents that don't make super-strict rules...

I'm sorry I was a little rude before about the OP. The boy that the dad is talking about does need to obey his father. Hopefully that son never reads this board, and if he does, he does not need to see this topic. I know that if I saw my dad telling someone else that I'm rebelling against his rules (even if it's true), I would be very upset..I'd probably cry, lol.