Sustainable Living. Any other freaks here?

[pneu-engine]

For some reason' date=' I had a feeling PE would be all over this topic! [/quote']

You betcha. :thumb

A good friend of mine, Garland Baker (hubby of Bakershalfdozen), and I got involved in the concept of developing a prime-mover (i.e. engine) that would be ultra-efficient for transportation vehicles and to produce our own power a couple years ago. :thumb

Because of the high cost of metals these days we want to make sure we have all of our designs right and proper before we begin our machining work. We want it to be right the first time. :smile

[5dumplings@home]

PS - We have a local group here that's big time into Stirling engines. Wish I had the money to play with'em - I love the simplicity of these "old" technologies.

Our good friends are big stirling people. As a matter of fact, he is known for his stirling engine (among other things.) Ever hear of stirling steele?

[pneu-engine]

third party

Our good friends are big stirling people. As a matter of fact, he is known for his stirling engine (among other things.) Ever hear of stirling steele?

The problem I have with the Stirling engine is its poor efficiency. The cost of fuel prohibits us from pursuing any design-concept with less than 95% efficiency. In 1911 Nikola Tesla claimed, and proved from independent third party testing 97% from his Boundary layer Drag Turbine engine. By combining that concept with a hybrid-electric it is conceivably possible to achieve many hundreds of miles per gallon. :lol

[zealyouthguy]

The problem I have with the Stirling engine is its poor efficiency. The cost of fuel prohibits us from pursuing any design-concept with less than 95% efficiency. In 1911 Nikola Tesla claimed, and proved from independent third party testing 97% from his Boundary layer Drag Turbine engine. By combining that concept with a hybrid-electric it is conceivably possible to achieve many hundreds of miles per gallon. :lol

If you could do it, you'd be wealthy.

They may kill you first, but if you lived through those attempts... you'd be wealthy.

[qwerty guy]

I've always wondered who those "they" are...

Car makers? no... better mileage means more money in the pockets of car owners meaning they'll buy new cars more often. This floods the used car market allowing more access to reliable vehicles by poorer people... putting more drivers on the road, thus more gas is being used

Oil companies? More drivers means gas is still going to be used... and oil, well, only a small fraction of oil is used for automobiles... people still need to heat their homes, plastic products must still be made, ect ect... They won't be hurting. Plus, if demand goes down, they simply reduce supply, or charge what ever they wanna charge anyway... they ain't gonna take a loss. What about refineries though?

If less oil is refined for use in autos, obviously the refineries are gonna hurt! wait, no... crude oil is turned into tons of things.. and refineries in the USA are working at maximum right now, even if they had to slow down, they would see that as a small blessing. They too are a private company, that is going to make a profit no matter what. Even if the water powered car is invented, we'd still need to refine about as much oil as we do now.

Gas station owners? will they kill you? Most stations make only pennies a gallon, and acually take a loss on Gas if you use a credit card, because the percentage that goes to the credit card company is higher then the profit. They make their money on soda s, and potato chips.... they couldn't care as long as people are still paying $1.40 for a bottle of tap water, which they would do more of given they have more money from the savings on gas.

Government? More money in people's pockets means they can raise taxes.... get more sales tax from more spending... more spending also leads to more jobs, which means more payroll taxes, more jobs also means higher demand for workers, which means payroll averages increase, meaning they pay higher taxes... any way you look at it, government wins.

Eco nuts? Yea... they might put a bullet in ya, to save the trees that would be killed for the new roads :duh

[pneu-engine]

Q-G,

Since the early 1900s there have been many people that have had great energy-saving inventions and were either bought out or put out. If the big oil producers and/or big auto mfr's couldn't buy out the inventions of these little guys then a "contract-hit" was performed on them. You won't find that in the history books either.

[zealyouthguy]

I've always wondered who those "they" are...

Car makers? no... better mileage means more money in the pockets of car owners meaning they'll buy new cars more often. This floods the used car market allowing more access to reliable vehicles by poorer people... putting more drivers on the road, thus more gas is being used

Oil companies? More drivers means gas is still going to be used... and oil, well, only a small fraction of oil is used for automobiles... people still need to heat their homes, plastic products must still be made, ect ect... They won't be hurting. Plus, if demand goes down, they simply reduce supply, or charge what ever they wanna charge anyway... they ain't gonna take a loss. What about refineries though?

If less oil is refined for use in autos, obviously the refineries are gonna hurt! wait, no... crude oil is turned into tons of things.. and refineries in the USA are working at maximum right now, even if they had to slow down, they would see that as a small blessing. They too are a private company, that is going to make a profit no matter what. Even if the water powered car is invented, we'd still need to refine about as much oil as we do now.

Gas station owners? will they kill you? Most stations make only pennies a gallon, and acually take a loss on Gas if you use a credit card, because the percentage that goes to the credit card company is higher then the profit. They make their money on soda s, and potato chips.... they couldn't care as long as people are still paying $1.40 for a bottle of tap water, which they would do more of given they have more money from the savings on gas.

Government? More money in people's pockets means they can raise taxes.... get more sales tax from more spending... more spending also leads to more jobs, which means more payroll taxes, more jobs also means higher demand for workers, which means payroll averages increase, meaning they pay higher taxes... any way you look at it, government wins.

Eco nuts? Yea... they might put a bullet in ya, to save the trees that would be killed for the new roads :duh

So you believe that the MPG of current Automobiles are at the highest they can be for our technology then, correct?

Start looking up current legislation being sough on keeping everyday average folks from being able to use wind generators and ask yourself why.

I'll give you the first piece... if you want to read it go ahead.

http://www.awea.org/newsroom/releases/A ... 52307.html

NEW ANTI-WIND LEGISLATIVE PROVISION WOULD MAKE IT
A CRIME TO PRODUCE CLEAN WIND ENERGY

Wind Group Condemns ?Unprecedented Effort to Strangle Clean Energy
and Subvert Key Part of Global Warming Solution?

The American Wind Energy Association (AWEA) today sharply criticized a provision in a new bill introduced by Chairman Nick Rahall (D-WV) in the House Natural Resources Committee that the group said would ?essentially outlaw the generation of electricity from new wind power plants in the United States and even phase out power production from existing wind turbines.?

The provision, Subtitle D of H.R. 2337, would:

* Bar any new wind power project until new Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) rules are issued ? a process likely to take years ? and require FWS certification of every turbine
* Require all existing turbines, even small residential units, to cease operating 6 months after issuance of new FWS rules until they are ?certified,? an unwieldy bureaucratic process applying to many thousands of turbines that, again, will take years
* Make it a crime, punishable by a $50,000 fine or a year in jail, to construct or generate electricity from an unapproved turbine, even for home use
* Undermine state and federal efforts to promote renewable electricity generation and subvert the growing movement to reduce global warming pollution
* Create an unworkable bureaucracy that will delay clean, emissions-free wind energy projects throughout the U.S.

Now ask yourself why a senator from WEST VIRGINIA, one of the poorest states in the union would be against this... since you know... it's all so profitable for everyone (except the "enviro-nuts" in your posit)?

One word: Coal.

[qwerty guy]

I am not saying there isn't some very evil people out there. They say money makes the world go around, but only because it buys energy. You want to control things, you control the energy.

And I have looked into this stuff in the past. This is the problem I see with many things like this:

Since the early 1900s there have been many people that have had great energy-saving inventions and were either bought out or put out. If the big oil producers and/or big auto mfr's couldn't buy out the inventions of these little guys then a "contract-hit" was performed on them. You won't find that in the history books either.

That's a great argument right there..... "it's been done, but I can't say who.... they either sold out, or they where killed, but there is no proof."

Don't say it's happened when your evidence for it happening is that the evidence is not there. It's a typical conspiracy nut argument that we are against something so huge and unstoppable that they make it impossible to even find out!!!!! Then how did you find out?

Regulations against wind turbines? Yea, I can understand that. Oil tanks for oil burning furnaces are regulated.... can't put in a water turbine into a stream on your property without it being regulated... I leave a car unmoved in my driveway to long and I get a notice. Do you seriously find it strange that putting up a big wind turbine, being regulated by the government, would be that strange???? It's a law around here your grass can't grow more then 8".... government regulates everything.

Did you know that there are many cars on the internet with great gas mileage? Do a search on it, it's everywhere... no selling out, no killings happening!! you know why? Some of the cars take about 20 min to go from 0-60. Some of them cost hundreds of thousands to get the gas mileage up 20mpg. You want a car with hundreds of miles to the gallon? Ok, fork over 500,000.00 and you probably can get close. The normal consumer is not gonna go for that.

You could get a good jump on mpg if you get rid of the emissions stuff. The area I'm in, you need to use reformulated 10% ethenol gas... that'll reduce your mpg. Doesn't even reduce pollution.

Please name me one cost efficient high mpg engine
Or, give me the news artical or some paper trail of the inventor of it who got killed or sold out

[sarcrew]

Qwerty, That's easy. Do even a grade school level of reasearch into the destruction of America's public transportation systems after the turn of the century and you will find several oil companies who bought them out and then dismantled them. More oil profit if everybody drives themselves.

Wayne

[pneu-engine]

Qwerty, That's easy. Do even a grade school level of reasearch into the destruction of America's public transportation systems after the turn of the century and you will find several oil companies who bought them out and then dismantled them. More oil profit if everybody drives themselves.

Wayne

That's a fact, Wayne. :thumb

[qwerty guy]

Qwerty' date=' That's easy. Do even a grade school level of reasearch into the destruction of America's public transportation systems after the turn of the century and you will find several oil companies who bought them out and then dismantled them. More oil profit if everybody drives themselves.[/quote']

Are you saying I don't have a grade school level of education?
Maybe you're saying that because I challenge your opinions that people have "hits" taken out on them because they invent something, that some how I'm stupid and you're smart?

Great response guys. I challenged you with facts not "you just don't know" type comments.

Lets see... what did I ask?


And your response was that I'm just to uneducated to know?
lol... hey, enjoy your compound, don't let the CIA put a chip in your brain, and make sure to line your roofs with tin foil against those satellites.

[sarcrew]

Qwerty, I in no way said anything about your education - the implication was how easy the search would be! And I gave a fact - you just aren't wiling to do any work to uncover the truth. Why should I do the google search for you? BTW - do always respond with the tin hat comment to anyone you disagree with - I can point to several of your posts already and you've only been here 2 weeks! You seem to have a hang up with "conspiracies". I said nothing about conspiracy - it's called business.


Wayne

[qwerty guy]

I already posted in here, that I've looked into this already.

I've read the books, I've looked around. I already pointed out what problems I've found.

You said, if I looked it would be easy to find. So you're saying I should look again? Keep looking? Look and look and look and look and look and no matter what, when I don't find anything, I just have to keep looking until I give up and agree that it MUST happen and they just covered it up because I can't find it?

Do the google search for me, by all means. Find me a reputable source of information that this stuff exists. The comment was made that people get killed for making good engines, I asked for the back up. You don't come back with "find it yourself"

You don't want me to make tin foil hat comments, then stop making far out claims about shadow organizations.

And no, it's not harmless. Good Christian soldiers not only ruin their testimony by getting caught up in stuff like this until they do something rash, they put people off by making wild unprovable claims that then put people off to Christianity by linking the two. Even if you don't link em, the people you talk to sure do.

I don't care what you believe, you can think what you want,

Please name me one cost efficient high mpg engine
Or, give me the news artical or some paper trail of the inventor of it who got killed or sold out

and save the attacks, the rabbit trails, and mockery. You want to answer me on this, answer it in not only the best way, but the way I asked:

[sarcrew]

Qwerty, for some proof of what I said - not what others said - they can defend themselves if they wish.

http://www.trainweb.org/mts/ctc/ctc06.html

http://www.ustrek.org/odyssey/semester2 ... ansit.html

http://www.buffalo.edu/reporter/vol26/vol26n10/20.txt

The PBS documentary "Taken for a Ride"


If you still don't believe that these companies will go to extremes for a profit then you just --- never mind - I won't sink to your level.

Wayne

[pneu-engine]

Wayne,

All the more reason I want to be independent and be able to unhook from the public utilities. For my part I'm just going to let the nay-sayers, scoffers, scorners and their ilk go their way, and I'll go mine.

You just wait, those same people that scoff at us will one day come crying to our door for us to help them do the same thing we do.