My definition of Calvinism

[John81]

What definition of heretic are we using here? This term gets used too freely and the meaning becomes lost.

[Guest Guest]

I have known quite a few BJU graduates and none were Calvinist, I am sure there are plenty of Calvinists there though as most colleges will have a wide spectrum...

As a side I just don't understand why people would pay so much more to go to a "Christian" college when they have no biblical precedent and offer not a bit more spiritual safety... I have actually seen quite a few more professing Christians get spiritually messed up in Christian colleges than in secular colleges. I guess it boils down to personal preference though unless you feel you need a degree from a bible college for the ministry. :2cents

[Alimantado]

What definition of heretic are we using here? This term gets used too freely and the meaning becomes lost.

I was principally thinking of Jerry's comment here:

True Calvinism is pure heresy.

Obviously I'm not myself in a position to judge who's a heretic and who isn't. But all the Christians I know are either Calvinist or old-earth or CofE or else hold to some other position that might be dubbed 'heresy' on this board; that was all I was getting at. Not exactly sure what point I'm trying to make with it, though!

[Pastorj]

Are you being facetious?

No I am not. BJU has moved towards Calvinism and Reformed Theology years ago. There are many Calvinists on faculty. Most of the more recent BJU grads I know are full-fledged Calvinists. A borderline Calvinist pastor friend sent his son there and he came back a full five pointer.

[Pastorj]

Heresy is defined as teaching that is contrary to Scripture.

Calvinism fits that definition.

[John81]

Heresy is defined as teaching that is contrary to Scripture.

Calvinism fits that definition.

Thank you. I understand that definition and it would be great if we all stuck to it, but oftentimes folks will toss about accusations of heresy against anything they disagree with whether they are referring to solid biblical doctrine or the color of socks they believe folks should or shouldn't wear.

With regards to Calvinism, the more I have looked into this the more I'm finding there isn't just one "Calvinism" but many views that some consider to be Calvinism.

Some versions of Calvinism I absolutely agree teach that which is contrary to Scripture but other versions don't. Why all of these are called Calvinism I'm not rightly sure of just yet.

[Disciple Maker]

No I am not. BJU has moved towards Calvinism and Reformed Theology years ago. There are many Calvinists on faculty. Most of the more recent BJU grads I know are full-fledged Calvinists. A borderline Calvinist pastor friend sent his son there and he came back a full five pointer.

I was asking the question to lettheredeemedsayso

[Pastorj]

The same is true of dispensationalism. There are different positions on this set of beliefs.

The root teachings of Calvinism are what Jerry presented in the 2nd post. Any variation is just that. The root teachings are heretical.

I could consider myself at least a 2 point calvinist if I redefined the terms.

I believe in Total Depravity: Rom. 3:10-23 says that we are totally depraved. Calvinists go beyond this and state that because of this we cannot even accept Christ.

I believe in Perseverance of the Saints: I believe that Christians ought to persevere to the end. Calvinists take this to an extreme and say that True Believers will persevere and anyone who backslides and doesn't repent wasn't truly saved in the first place.

[Pastorj]

sorry disciplemaker

[Disciple Maker]

I could consider myself at least a 2 point calvinist if I redefined the terms.

I believe in Total Depravity: Rom. 3:10-23 says that we are totally depraved. Calvinists go beyond this and state that because of this we cannot even accept Christ.

Do you believe Adam and Eve were morally conscious after the fall and when they were lost? Do you believe lost people can make moral choices? If you believe either of these two things, you do not believe in Total Depravity like Calvinism teaches (actually Total Inability).

I believe in Perseverance of the Saints: I believe that Christians ought to persevere to the end. Calvinists take this to an extreme and say that True Believers will persevere and anyone who backslides and doesn't repent wasn't truly saved in the first place.

Do you believe the "saints" will persevere or do you believe God will preserve them? The Bible teaches God's preservation of the "saints." If you believe that a person's eternal security is based upon preservation by God and not perseverance by the "saints," you do not believe what Calvinism teaches.

[Pastorj]

You missed what I was saying. If you redefine those two terms, I would agree with it. However, as Calvin defines them, I cannot believe it.

[Pastorj]

I have known quite a few BJU graduates and none were Calvinist, I am sure there are plenty of Calvinists there though as most colleges will have a wide spectrum...

As a side I just don't understand why people would pay so much more to go to a "Christian" college when they have no biblical precedent and offer not a bit more spiritual safety... I have actually seen quite a few more professing Christians get spiritually messed up in Christian colleges than in secular colleges. I guess it boils down to personal preference though unless you feel you need a degree from a bible college for the ministry. :2cents

BJU has most definitely gone down the road of Reformed Theology. Though they still use the KJV in the undergraduate Bible classes, they have left the KJV in their graduate program.

As to your statement regarding Christian Colleges, I will respectfully disagree.

[Disciple Maker]

You missed what I was saying. If you redefine those two terms' date=' I would agree with it. However, as Calvin defines them, I cannot believe it.[/quote']I didn't missed it Brother. I agree, but that is the point. If you redefine the meaning then you no longer believe what Calvinism believes and you would not be a "Two Point Calvinist." So why even say that about yourself? Why identify with Calvinism in any way? People often ask me if I am a Calvinist or Arminian, to which I reply, "Are those my only two choices?"

[Disciple Maker]

BJU has most definitely gone down the road of Reformed Theology. Though they still use the KJV in the undergraduate Bible classes, they have left the KJV in their graduate program.

As to your statement regarding Christian Colleges, I will respectfully disagree.

Even though they still use the KJV, they are Eclectic Text in their Greek department and have been for years. They hide their position on the Greek Text by publicly using the KJV while covertly using the Eclectic Text that undermines the KJV. If they want to use the Eclectic Text, that is their choice, but they should be ethical about the fact they do not believe in the preservation of God's Words in the Received Text or even in the Majority Text. The Eclectic Text is a text based upon Eclectic Textual Criticism resulting in a 95% reconstructed Text (NA24/UBS4).

[Guest Guest]

As to your statement regarding Christian Colleges, I will respectfully disagree.

That is fine, I am aware that this is not exactly a popular opinion. :wink