Lordship Salvaiton = revealed

[Behold]

Reader...

Lets get real... Lets keep it real....

The reason that Lordship Salvation is denial of the Cross....Its because the Salvation of God, is..

You were a dirty lost sinner, and you never did anything for God. 
You loved sin.
You never cared about Law, or Commandments, and you thought that "Christ is a crutch for the weak".
If you went to church at all it was "Easter" or some Christmas service, and you sat there bored, looking at the "chicks'.
Yeah YOU.

So, THAT stinking mess of humanity, heard the Gospel, and had a REVELATION that you needed Jesus.
So, you came forward, or you kneeled and prayed, and gave God your faith in Christ.
You, a hell bound sinning dog.....

And now, later, you are trying to teach, prove... that you came to Jesus and knew anything AT THAT TIME, about JESUS being THE LORD?

You knew nothing about this.. at THAT TIME.
All you knew is that something was happening inside you, and you obeyed it from the heart and God took you, filthy you, and made you clean with the BLOOD of Jesus., by HIS GRACE.

And now you "lordship" cult people, want to pretend that AT THAT TIME you had your "Lordship Theology", all lined up.

"If Christ is not LORD OF YOUR LIFE< He's not LORD AT ALL".... or "If Jesus is not Lord of all then He's not Lord at all".....

So, i know some carnal words that i acquired before i was born again, that tend to "pop up in my thinking"...... and they fit this "lordship" nonsense perfectly.

I"ll refrain.

But you get the message, fakirs.

-pathetic.

Edited March 12 by Behold

[MikeWatson1]

The problem I see with Lordship salvation, is it tries to make Jesus Lord over every area of life.. number one.. right at the time of salvation.

So if someone genuinely believes on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life, if the are having trouble with sin..there is a high chance the Lordship person will attack, rather than comfort this person and question their salvation. 

It's 'back loading' works into salvation.  Saying a saved person IS going to be faithful all their life. Like a saved person WILL act a certain way..do these things..etc.. when in actual fact..their faithfulness will wax and wain. They may not end up a good Christian. Doesn't mean 'never saved to begin with '.

It's taking 'he who endureth to the end will be saved' right out of context.

[Jerry]

Jesus keeps His own - it’s not a matter of us enduring to the end (that’s referring to physical deliverance, not spiritual), but of Jesus preserving those He has saved. If we wander, He chastizes us - and the final step of chastizing us is to take us home to be with Him.

I don’t believe in Lordship salvation in the sense of us cleaning our lives up before we trust Jesus and are given the indwelling Holy Spirit (we have no power to overcome sin before we are saved) - we don’t MAKE Jesus Lord of our lives - but we do need to believe His is Lord and that He has the right to tell us what to do day by day in our lives - He does that through His Word, which becomes (or should become) our guide when we become God’s children.

I do believe that we need to realize He IS Lord to some extent when we come to Him for salvation. He is the Lord God, the Lord Jesus Christ. God’s main name in the Bible is LORD/Lord (Jehovah/Adonai respectively - Kurios in the NT).

I did not clean up my life before trusting in the “Lord” Jesus Christ for salvation, but I repented of my sin and turned to the Saviour - I stopped going my own way in life (overall) and chose to go His way, looking to His Word from that time onwards to learn what that way was - and as I walk with Him, we work on my life together, according to His will. See verses below. (For the record, if at any time in my spiritual walk with Jesus/God, I stop going His way or buck and kick, that’s called backsliding - and according to Hebrews 12 and other passages, God won’t let His children go on in disobedience without chastizing and consequences).

Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you (that’s working together), and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Song of Songs 2:15 Take us (that’s together with the Lord) the foxes,
the little foxes, that spoil the vines:
for our vines have tender grapes.

[Jerry]

4 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

Saying a saved person IS going to be faithful all their life. Like a saved person WILL act a certain way..do these things..etc.. when in actual fact..their faithfulness will wax and wain. They may not end up a good Christian. Doesn't mean 'never saved to begin with '.

No one has said or indicated this on these boards - as I stated before, being backslidden (or even struggling at times, etc.) is not the same thing as rejecting the Lord/the truth and becoming apostate. A true believer will NEVER do that - God would stop them from ever getting to that point, even if it means taking them home first. AND someone who utterly rejects the Lord and His salvation, etc. was NEVER saved or a true believer to begin with, despite how they might have appeared for a time.

[heartstrings]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, I think "lordship salvation" would be defined as giving your whole life to Jesus at the time of salvation. In other words "making Him Lord of all" at the moment of faith. Not cleaning up our lives beforehand. No?

[Jerry]

Most people define it as turning from all sin before salvation. I repented of my known sin when I came to Christ - though the changing of my life was over time (the heart and mind was changed immediately).

When I came to Christ, I received Him as my Lord and Saviour. I didn’t just receive Him as Saviour then later accept His Lordship.

[MikeWatson1]

6 hours ago, heartstrings said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but, I think "lordship salvation" would be defined as giving your whole life to Jesus at the time of salvation. In other words "making Him Lord of all" at the moment of faith. Not cleaning up our lives beforehand. No?

The thing is, giving your whole life.  Is that salvation coming from Jesus...or you? 

Sometimes it is just semantics.. but making Jesus Lord of your life.. in every area takes alot of time. 

Old sin doesn't always straight away stop after salvation.  Because the Holy Spirit is there indwelling.. means you'll be pushed to not go back...but doesn't mean you can't or won't go back. 

Usually the Lordship salvationist will say you can't or won't go back to old sin. It 'back loads' works in to salvation so you still must be doing good works. 

[Jerry]

I didn’t clean up my life first, but I repented of my known sin (ie. turned in my heart from sin known to me) and I trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as my Saviour when I got saved - and yes, I did fully accept the fact that He was the Lord when I came to Him. I didn’t add any works to the Gospel, and I’ve been saved for almost 32 years now.

Now people who get religious for a bit but who never repent or have their lives change think that believing in repentance and faith as both being necessary for salvation is adding to the Gospel - despite what the old evangelists and preachers of the past said and what the Word of God still says. I’m going to stick with that.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

[SureWord]

Where does the Bible say "give your whole life over to Jesus" at the time of salvation? Of course, ultimately that's what is supposed to happening but at the time of accepting Jesus as Savior I don't see that in scripture. 

Again, I find it ironic the Lordship Salvation ultimately becomes Full Gospel Salvation just like Calvinism becomes Arminianism.

[Behold]

On 3/19/2024 at 12:37 AM, Jerry said:

No one has said or indicated this on these boards - as I stated before, being backslidden (or even struggling at times, etc.) is not the same thing as rejecting the Lord/the truth and becoming apostate. A true believer will NEVER do that - God would stop them from ever getting to that point, even if it means taking them home first. AND someone who utterly rejects the Lord and His salvation, etc. was NEVER saved or a true believer to begin with, despite how they might have appeared for a time.

 

Well, only a Christian can have "dead faith".. and only a Christian can "fall from Grace".. and only a Christian can "backslide" and only a Christian can have a "shipwrecked" faith.

The fact is.... a believer can become very deceived in their head... especially if Calvinism becomes their mind, as in that case, they will begin to blame God for what the devil does to them and to their life.   

See : Calvinism blames God for it all, as if the Devil does not exist to cause evil..

It can also be that something that really matters to you, such as your child.. .they can die.  and then you say...>"why did YOU let that happen, GOD".

And you then Hate God....

And then the newbie believers who have no ministry experience, have never won a soul... want to come and blurb.... "well, if they were really born again they would not be like that'..

But yes they would... .as you can't stop being a HUMAN, no matter how long you are saved.

So, the fact is... REAL LIFE can harm and its possible for you to blame God and never go back .

And THAT has nothing to do with your Salvation, as Salvaiton is Christ on the Cross, and not how you think later, or behave later.

Edited March 20 by Behold

[MikeWatson1]

On 3/21/2024 at 1:11 AM, Behold said:

 

Well, only a Christian can have "dead faith".. and only a Christian can "fall from Grace".. and only a Christian can "backslide" and only a Christian can have a "shipwrecked" faith.

The fact is.... a believer can become very deceived in their head... especially if Calvinism becomes their mind, as in that case, they will begin to blame God for what the devil does to them and to their life.   

See : Calvinism blames God for it all, as if the Devil does not exist to cause evil..

It can also be that something that really matters to you, such as your child.. .they can die.  and then you say...>"why did YOU let that happen, GOD".

And you then Hate God....

And then the newbie believers who have no ministry experience, have never won a soul... want to come and blurb.... "well, if they were really born again they would not be like that'..

But yes they would... .as you can't stop being a HUMAN, no matter how long you are saved.

So, the fact is... REAL LIFE can harm and its possible for you to blame God and never go back .

And THAT has nothing to do with your Salvation, as Salvaiton is Christ on the Cross, and not how you think later, or behave later.

I was reading an article on Lordship salvation, and the author was saying that people see too many false converts.. people who claim to be christian but obviously aren't. So they get so sick of this they go to the extreme of Lordship salvation along the lines of trying to make sure the person is saved and faithful.  So they put obedience and submission into salvation with good intentions.. but actually skip over plain 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'

 

[Jerry]

On 3/20/2024 at 5:11 AM, Behold said:

And then the newbie believers who have no ministry experience, have never won a soul... want to come and blurb.... "well, if they were really born again they would not be like that'..

There are many people that have settled doctrine that believe this is what the Bible teaches - and I have already given the passages for my thoughts/beliefs on this (which you have not refuted, you have just accused the person who believes this a newbie, ie. someone who does not know their Bible).

P.S. The end result of your salvation is not left up to you. If you truly get devastated by some tragedy in life and wander from God, He will bring you back or eventually bring you home by way of chastisement. He will not let you wander forever from Him nor let you utterly reject Him. He will correct your wayward thinking and behaving or end it by bringing you to glory - and that depends upon Him. He does not abandon His children down here and hope they arrive in one piece.

And it is HIS WORD that gives all the warnings about backsliding and apostasy that I have posted here and elsewhere on these boards. You may different with my conclusion (ie. how I have put them together) - but they are still in His Word and it is up to us to believe and heed them (and if you differ, put them all together and show us what they do mean, not mock the person that does believe and apply them).

On 3/21/2024 at 5:49 PM, MikeWatson1 said:

I was reading an article on Lordship salvation, and the author was saying that people see too many false converts.. people who claim to be christian but obviously aren't. So they get so sick of this they go to the extreme of Lordship salvation along the lines of trying to make sure the person is saved and faithful.  So they put obedience and submission into salvation with good intentions.. but actually skip over plain 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'

Going to an opposite extreme on any doctrine is not the solution to those who twist or misrepresent Scripture. The Bible teaches BOTH - repentance AND faith is required for salvation, and there are many that profess to be saved that never truly knew the Lord, and in time that will eventually be revealed (whether in this life or in eternity).