A friend has turned "trans" :(

[heartstrings]

I have been having trouble with one of my CNC machines. At first tech support said it was the controller board. So I purchased (from them) a new board with a USB interface, to replace the old one which used a serial port. Got it up and running, used it to manufacture a large 2-sided sign and completed a freebee project for my Sunday School teacher. So far so good . The new circuit board cost about $1500. About 2 weeks ago, I had another sign about 95% done when the controller stopped sending signal to the motors. I have been going back and forth with tech support evert since. Anyway, I had posted a photo yesterday, on Facebook, mostly using FB as an easier way to transfer photos and video to my email account to send to the techs. 

A lady answered one of the posts and I recognized the last name as a guy who was president of a local HAM radio club. I had joined the club 5 years ago in the wake of Hurricane Michael after taking the classes and getting my FCC license. After I joined, I bought a base station and an antennae tower but I only attended 2 club meetings because I don't have time for another hobby and I am not really into HAM radio. I just wanted a way to communicate in case of another major disaster. Anyway, the president of the club and I became friends as we found we were both into building and operating CNC machines. We also became friends on Facebook. But, about a year or so ago, I noticed that his name was no longer in my friends list.

Fast forward to today. The female name on FB, who I thought was his wife, was offering to come help me with my CNC and said she was available after 2 pm. So, I'm thinking (we'll call him Bob) that Bob must have closed his account and was using his wife's account. Some guys do that sort of thing, no big deal. But I had to ask "is this Bob?" since I wasn't aware that his wife was into CNC., he said "yes". Then he said "but I look much different from how I looked before". "I'm (we'll say "Tammy") Tammy now", then sent over a picture and his "coming out" letter. I'm so glad I asked because if he had showed up looking like that at my shop, I might have passed out. This was a shocker enough as it was. I still can't believe it.

This guy gave no indications of this whatsoever at the HAM classes or meetings, never said anything out of the way there, nor at any of the times we corresponded talking shop. But now, he even said he would like to be addressed by his "pronouns" and called by his new name. He also said if I decided to not invite him over to my shop, he would understand. Well, I can say, I refuse to call any man "her" or "she". Just ain't happening. Neither will I call him a woman's name. I feel sorry for the guy. It's so sad. I had enough problems and worries going on right now, and then this! I'm not angry with the guy either,, he's always been nice to me, but what does disgust me at this point, is all the "liking" and the encouraging comments I saw from people replying to his "coming out" post.  What would you do? 

[Pastor Matt]

Unfortunately, this is becoming too common. Metal illness needs to be address in our society today, and that should start in our Christian homes.

[MikeWatson1]

Reminds me of a post a saw on fb of someone putting pics up of their new baby with her female partner.  Done artificially I think..the sperm put in.  A whole lot of my Christian friends saw it and many 'liked' it..gave positive comments etc. We were all part of a CRU club. 

 

CRU used to be theologically conservative with Bill Bright's teaching but something has changed with it. I think the older leaders have started to pass on and younger ones have the reigns who want to please the crowd. 

[Pastor Matt]

On 2/17/2024 at 12:54 PM, MikeWatson1 said:

Reminds me of a post a saw on fb of someone putting pics up of their new baby with her female partner.  Done artificially I think..the sperm put in.  A whole lot of my Christian friends saw it and many 'liked' it..gave positive comments etc. We were all part of a CRU club. 

 

CRU used to be theologically conservative with Bill Bright's teaching but something has changed with it. I think the older leaders have started to pass on and younger ones have the reigns who want to please the crowd. 

I've never heard of CRU before, Is that mostly a New Zealand thing?

[BrotherTony]

2 hours ago, Pastor Matt said:

I've never heard of CRU before, Is that mostly a New Zealand thing?

I was wondering that myself, unless it's some "reformed" thing. 

[MikeWatson1]

8 hours ago, Pastor Matt said:

I've never heard of CRU before, Is that mostly a New Zealand thing?

Oh it's Campus Crusade for Christ..parachurch org.  They changed their name to CRU in America.  Here it is called Tandem Ministries.  Their Four Spiritual Laws booklet (or Knowing God Personally) is the 2nd most sold book below the bible.

 

 

Edited February 19 by MikeWatson1
Wording out

[MikeWatson1]

6 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

I was wondering that myself, unless it's some "reformed" thing. 

It is in the reformed tradition but not fully calvinist in the sense of people do receive Christ..call on Jesus for salvation.  But it is a bit like Calvinism in 'back loading' works into the sinners prayer.. trusting in 'committing their lives to Christ' ..'making Jesus Lord of your life' . 

These are things I believe someone can do AFTER conversion. It takes a serious amount of time for God to be number 1 in every area of your life and have your whole life fully committed. 

 

 

[SureWord]

I think a lot of this is an attention seeking fad. 

11 hours ago, MikeWatson1 said:

It is in the reformed tradition but not fully calvinist in the sense of people do receive Christ..call on Jesus for salvation.  But it is a bit like Calvinism in 'back loading' works into the sinners prayer.. trusting in 'committing their lives to Christ' ..'making Jesus Lord of your life' . 

These are things I believe someone can do AFTER conversion. It takes a serious amount of time for God to be number 1 in every area of your life and have your whole life fully committed. 

 

 

It's ironic that many Calvinsts end up sounding like Arminians.

[MikeWatson1]

7 hours ago, SureWord said:

I think a lot of this is an attention seeking fad. 

It's ironic that many Calvinsts end up sounding like Arminians.

Yeah, Calvinists are supposed to believe once saved always saved but turn around and say if you don't endure to the end in your faith it's never saved to begin with.  So really it's not osas

[R Sauter]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:05 PM, MikeWatson1 said:

It is in the reformed tradition but not fully calvinist in the sense of people do receive Christ..call on Jesus for salvation.  But it is a bit like Calvinism in 'back loading' works into the sinners prayer.. trusting in 'committing their lives to Christ' ..'making Jesus Lord of your life' . 

These are things I believe someone can do AFTER conversion. It takes a serious amount of time for God to be number 1 in every area of your life and have your whole life fully committed. 

 

 

Campus Crusade for Christ has been anything but Calvinistic. They have always had a decisionist and pragmatic approach to personal evangelism which Calvinists would object to and rightfully so.

[R Sauter]

On 2/19/2024 at 5:16 PM, MikeWatson1 said:

Yeah, Calvinists are supposed to believe once saved always saved but turn around and say if you don't endure to the end in your faith it's never saved to begin with.  So really it's not osas

I will gladly take the Calvinist position of perserverence over the sloppy "Once Saved Always Saved" nonsense promulgated by so many biblically illiterate Baptists!

Firstly, you are misrepresenting the position but I also understand this is likely how you have been taught. It is not that Christians "Must" endure to the end in order to be saved (the position of Pentecostals, Catholics, and others on the extreme end of Arminianism) but that if you are a genuine Christian, you WILL endure to the end! You possess something that will withstand the tests of temptation and tribulation that would make others who have nothing but an empty profession fall away and forsake that which they had initially professed! This is what the Parable of the Sower is all about.

I have nothing but the utmost contempt for certain Baptists who spout "Cheap Grace" where they base their salvation upon some "event" in their life where they pray a prayer, fill out a decision card and get baptized but nothing has taken place in their lives since this event. Their life never changes and they go on living like the Devil but the Baptist Church counts them as "saved" because they "prayed a prayer" with the pastor!

Also, what about all of these "Professing Christians" who later "Deconstruct" their faith and ultimately renounce that which they have previously professed? Would you dare to say that these are "still saved" because of their original profession? I have met far too many "OSAS Baptists" who would say just that and preachers who say such things behind their pulpits will one day have to give account to God for promoting such horrible theology! 1 John 2:19 makes it quite clear that those who ultimately renounce their faith never actually had faith to begin with.

I like what RC Sproul had to say about this matter. He acknowledges that "Perserverence of the Saints" is often misunderstood and that he personally does not like how this is worded. He said it is actually the "Perseverence of God" that it is God who preserves and keeps us from falling and it is by the power of God that the faith which we profess withstands the test of time, trials, and temptations of this life.

[BrotherTony]

I don't count myself as "Biblically illiterate." You seem to like to paint with that wide brush that so many Calvinists loudly proclaim against those who don't hold their belief in Calvinism. Most here hold to the "once saved always saved" position and scripturally so. You stated yourself that 1 John 2:19 talks about people who leave the faith. In all likelihood they were NEVER saved in the first place... so, that would take care of your argument against "OSAS." The poor excuse/accusation thrown around by Calvinists about others not understanding certain aspects of the Calvinists belief system is ludicrous and has an air of elitism about it. That's just MY opinion on the Calvinist mindset.

Edited February 21 by BrotherTony

[MikeWatson1]

2 hours ago, R Sauter said:

I will gladly take the Calvinist position of perserverence over the sloppy "Once Saved Always Saved" nonsense promulgated by so many biblically illiterate Baptists!

Firstly, you are misrepresenting the position but I also understand this is likely how you have been taught. It is not that Christians "Must" endure to the end in order to be saved (the position of Pentecostals, Catholics, and others on the extreme end of Arminianism) but that if you are a genuine Christian, you WILL endure to the end! You possess something that will withstand the tests of temptation and tribulation that would make others who have nothing but an empty profession fall away and forsake that which they had initially professed! This is what the Parable of the Sower is all about.

I have nothing but the utmost contempt for certain Baptists who spout "Cheap Grace" where they base their salvation upon some "event" in their life where they pray a prayer, fill out a decision card and get baptized but nothing has taken place in their lives since this event. Their life never changes and they go on living like the Devil but the Baptist Church counts them as "saved" because they "prayed a prayer" with the pastor!

Also, what about all of these "Professing Christians" who later "Deconstruct" their faith and ultimately renounce that which they have previously professed? Would you dare to say that these are "still saved" because of their original profession? I have met far too many "OSAS Baptists" who would say just that and preachers who say such things behind their pulpits will one day have to give account to God for promoting such horrible theology! 1 John 2:19 makes it quite clear that those who ultimately renounce their faith never actually had faith to begin with.

I like what RC Sproul had to say about this matter. He acknowledges that "Perserverence of the Saints" is often misunderstood and that he personally does not like how this is worded. He said it is actually the "Perseverence of God" that it is God who preserves and keeps us from falling and it is by the power of God that the faith which we profess withstands the test of time, trials, and temptations of this life.

Yea it should be the perseverance of God..not the saints..

But the verse 'he who endureth to the will be saved' is not about salvation but the other kind of deliverance during end times...from trials and tribulations. 

I wasn't saying CRU was Calvinist ..but still loads works into salvation by having a believer 'commit their life to Christ'

What happens when their commitment fails?  Never saved to begin with?

No way. Jesus saves them..not their own commitment. 

 

 

Edited February 21 by MikeWatson1

[R Sauter]

2 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

I don't count myself as "Biblically illiterate." You seem to like to paint with that wide brush that so many Calvinists loudly proclaim against those who don't hold their belief in Calvinism. Most here hold to the "once saved always saved" position and scripturally so. You stated yourself that 1 John 2:19 talks about people who leave the faith. In all likelihood they were NEVER saved in the first place... so, that would take care of your argument against "OSAS." The poor excuse/accusation thrown around by Calvinists about others not understanding certain aspects of the Calvinists belief system is ludicrous and has an air of elitism about it. That's just MY opinion on the Calvinist mindset.

Tony, you know me better than this!

There are Baptists (far too many, truth be known) who hang everything upon some "decision" they made for Christ years back in 5th Grade Sunday School or whatever. This is further compounded by the fact that many are taught they are sinning when they are doubting God regarding their salvation so they learn not to question things, This very much a thing with the "Free Grace" crowd and is quite heretical and wrong. They are also rabid anti-Calvinist for good reason - because Calvinism exposes the nonsense of their man-centered Gospel!

I tried to clarify the actual view of preseverence to Mike Watson and I believe he gets it.

The doctrine of eternal security is very much the biblically correct position although I sympathize with certain of the Arminian persuasion that are repulsed with so many "Carnal" Baptists who live like the Devil but claim to be saved because of some "prayer" they prayed in Vacation Bible School as a child or whatever! And to make it perfectly clear, this is every bit as much of a SBC thing as it is an IFB thing! Nope, I'm not about to be "nice" about this!

You do not have to go full "Calvie" but every ministry would do well to temper their position on eternal security with the historic view of perserverence. It is very much a biblical thing (actually a scriptural mandate) to "warn those who are unruly."

[BrotherTony]

19 minutes ago, R Sauter said:

Tony, you know me better than this!

There are Baptists (far too many, truth be known) who hang everything upon some "decision" they made for Christ years back in 5th Grade Sunday School or whatever. This is further compounded by the fact that many are taught they are sinning when they are doubting God regarding their salvation so they learn not to question things, This very much a thing with the "Free Grace" crowd and is quite heretical and wrong. They are also rabid anti-Calvinist for good reason - because Calvinism exposes the nonsense of their man-centered Gospel!

I tried to clarify the actual view of preseverence to Mike Watson and I believe he gets it.

The doctrine of eternal security is very much the biblically correct position although I sympathize with certain of the Arminian persuasion that are repulsed with so many "Carnal" Baptists who live like the Devil but claim to be saved because of some "prayer" they prayed in Vacation Bible School as a child or whatever! And to make it perfectly clear, this is every bit as much of a SBC thing as it is an IFB thing! Nope, I'm not about to be "nice" about this!

You do not have to go full "Calvie" but every ministry would do well to temper their position on eternal security with the historic view of perserverence. It is very much a biblical thing (actually a scriptural mandate) to "warn those who are unruly."

I was certainly hoping that it was coming across the wrong way. You and I have discussed this several times over the years. Still, after being attacked by one from the Calvinistic persuasion this past week, and my having to block him when I never thought I would have to, I am a little more ready to go on the defense of those who hold to free will. 

When it comes to the defense of Biblical salvation, I don't believe anyone would say to be soft on the issue.

Edited February 21 by BrotherTony