Let Us Prey: A Ministry of Scandals

[Napsterdad]

2 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

Should a Pastor step down when he is having family problems? It all depends on what the problem is. 

While I see where you are coming from, I have to disagree. It does not matter what the problem is. It matters how whatever that problem is affects the Pastor's walk and his ability to properly shepherd his flock. Everyone responds differently to the various situations placed in our lives. A Pastor must be able to properly, sincerely and with the love of Christ, minister to the needs of every individual; not only in the church, but whomever he meets. If any "problem" in his life prevents him from regularly fulfilling this office, he should step down, or at least step aside until he can get his walk with the Lord back on track. 

[HappyChristian]

And let's face it: pastors and their families are human, so there WILL be problems. Should he step down? Well, the best guide for that is not going to man for advice, but rather to scripture. God outlines what He wants in a pastor's home/life.  If any those qualifications are consistently muffed up, then, yes, he should step down (consistent lack of meeting those qualifications will definitely cause him to be unable to regularly fulfill his calling properly). I do think the "what" is important: for instance, having your children under control does not mean that they won't be disobedient or stupid at times because they are as human as the pastor. It does, however, mean that when the children need to be disciplined/straightened out, pastor daddy will take it in hand and take care of the issue. Allowing sin to dominate in the life of his children is not ruling his house well. Etc.  Boy, have we strayed from the OP. lol (but in reality, it all fits hand-in-hand, doesn't it?)

 

[Pastor Matt]

Take this video for whatever it's worth.

Rachel Peach replied the following. If she is correct, this pastor should be ashamed of himself. 

 

[HappyChristian]

[HappyChristian]

Timely:  https://davemallinak.com/2023/12/05/protecting-your-church-from-predators/

 

[TheGloryLand]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:24 PM, Napsterdad said:

While I see where you are coming from, I have to disagree. It does not matter what the problem is. It matters how whatever that problem is affects the Pastor's walk and his ability to properly shepherd his flock. Everyone responds differently to the various situations placed in our lives. A Pastor must be able to properly, sincerely and with the love of Christ, minister to the needs of every individual; not only in the church, but whomever he meets. If any "problem" in his life prevents him from regularly fulfilling this office, he should step down, or at least step aside until he can get his walk with the Lord back on track. 

All pastors would have to step down. Pastors are human and have weaknesses. and they all fall short. They have their battles just like you and I have any temptation. They have personal problems they have family problems. They have financial problems and some have faith problems. pastors are not angels, for if they were, they could do what you mentioned above easily. 

[Napsterdad]

3 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

All pastors would have to step down. Pastors are human and have weaknesses. and they all fall short. They have their battles just like you and I have any temptation. They have personal problems they have family problems. They have financial problems and some have faith problems. pastors are not angels, for if they were, they could do what you mentioned above easily. 

You need to get off the pendulum that only seems to rest at the end of each swing (and yours typically on the negative side).

Please show me where I stated that I expected pastors to be angels, or where I stated they would not have problems.

Of course, Pastors will have problems, that is to be expected, but it's how they are allowing those problems to affect their ministries. If their ministries are negatively impacted for a significant amount of time because of the problems they are experiencing, then they should consider stepping aside for a time or stepping down. I have yet to meet a pastor that has not had problems. But those that are successful are able to, for the most part, isolate their own problems from their ministry, and they have a circle of saints that are there to help them scripturally bear their burden(s).

Edited December 10, 2023 by Napsterdad

[TheGloryLand]

Hello, you mentioned  

You need to get off the pendulum that only seems to rest at the end of each swing (and yours typically on the negative side).

Please show me where I stated that I expected pastors to be angels, or where I stated they would not have problems.

 

I agree with you, that you did not say these things, I did. I shouldn’t have replied to you. But reply in general. I am not a negative person. Just trying to help on a hot or difficult topic. Thanks

[BrotherTony]

Let's just put it this way, there far too many scandals, sexual and otherwise in the clergy regardless of denomination, and far too few churches that make sure there is accountability for these incidents, both legal and ecclesiastical. There has been some improvement, but not anywhere near enough. There have been several pastors here in Middle Tennessee who have temporarily stepped away from their ministerial posts because of these challenges to try and recover mentally and spiritually and be restored Biblically to full fellowship and ministry. I can respect that type of person as long as it's sincere and an appropriate time between their removal and restoration. Some stepped aside and within three months were back in their positions after having adulterous affairs or some other serious infraction. 

I know that the son of the current pastor of the church that once housed the first Bible college was grooming and molesting young men from the youth where he was serving as the youth pastor. When it came to this being revealed the son was arrested, tried, and is currently serving a moderate prison sentence. There were some calls for the pastor (I went to the Bible college with him back in the early 80s before he took the pastorate there) to resign, but that didn't happen. I know several who left and went to other churches. Should he have resigned? It was his son, after all. Was HE accountable for the actions of his son? That's a tough call. 

[Napsterdad]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

Let's just put it this way, there far too many scandals, sexual and otherwise in the clergy regardless of denomination, and far too few churches that make sure there is accountability for these incidents, both legal and ecclesiastical. There has been some improvement, but not anywhere near enough.

Should he have resigned? It was his son, after all. Was HE accountable for the actions of his son? That's a tough call. 

Your first point is spot on, and the sad part is that because it happens in "Christian" churches these scandals are magnified exponentially over those same scandals in the secular world.

Should that pastor resign? IMHO it really depends on how his ministry is impacted by that scandal. If it is keeping him from properly ministering or negatively impacting how his ministry is received, then perhaps he should. Ultimately it is not the pastor or his office that is the most important thing, it is the souls of all those that pastorate touches.  It may not even always "seem fair", but what is more important: the man in the office, or the ministry the Lord is trying to do there? If the pastor is a true minister (aka servant), should he not be willing to step down if it is believed it would benefit the ministry for God?

[BrotherTony]

42 minutes ago, Napsterdad said:

Your first point is spot on, and the sad part is that because it happens in "Christian" churches these scandals are magnified exponentially over those same scandals in the secular world.

Should that pastor resign? IMHO it really depends on how his ministry is impacted by that scandal. If it is keeping him from properly ministering or negatively impacting how his ministry is received, then perhaps he should. Ultimately it is not the pastor or his office that is the most important thing, it is the souls of all those that pastorate touches.  It may not even always "seem fair", but what is more important: the man in the office, or the ministry the Lord is trying to do there? If the pastor is a true minister (aka servant), should he not be willing to step down if it is believed it would benefit the ministry for God?

It seems his staying as pastor did help. Knowing him for many years, I believe he did the right thing. The church, which was running nearly 2000 people back in the early 80s is running between 90 and 200, or was last I checked. I know that many of the locals, both saved and unsaved alike, have varied opinions on his pastorate. All I can do is pray for the ministry there. 

[R Sauter]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:35 AM, TheGloryLand said:

Should a Pastor step down when he is having family problems? It all depends on what the problem is. if it is because his wife doesn’t want to come to church every Sunday or his kids are smoking and hanging around the wrong people. No, he should not step down. would you step down from your job? If you have any of these issues, I don’t think so. Yes, if he is having sexual scandals, or problems with Internet sex. step down and seek help. Now, if you had any of these issues, I just mentioned, would you step down most likely you will not. spiritual leaders or non-spiritual, there is a double standard here. Sin is sin, but pastors are measured with a shorter ruler. I believe a pastor should gather with the deacons or leaders of the church discuss their situation and do what the leaders or deacons recommend. If they ask him please stay, then stay, if they ask him please step down seek help then do that, keeping his salary is a must in serving or seeking help. Just like when we have a problem at work we take family leave, or vacation leave and and still get paid. For how long get paid, the church leaders will decide. Now talking about abuse in the church, this should not be accepted and termination is a must especially when there are children involved. if the pastor is cheating on his wife, he should be terminated immediately. If the wife is cheating on the Pastor, the pastor being single now can stay. Even if he’s not divorced, yet, he can slowly work on that and stay preaching, for the woman was the weaker vessel. We humans love to judge others. This also can be sin, especially if we are not part of that congregation. Am I judging right now, not really, I’m talking in general and not about anyone person. if you notice, I normally don’t respond with long paragraphs, this must be important.

My point was not whether a pastor SHOULD step down but whether he has the ability to personally choose to step down and give priority to his family and his marriage. There is an old saying - "If you lose your family, you have already lost your minstry!" Stepping away for a season allows one to perform preventive maintenance and see to it that he will not have to step down permanently because things went catastrophic and irreparable! A pastor should be able to choose to do the right thing for himself and his family without any shame or stigma.

The point is that a pastor should never feel "Trapped" in a situation that is harmful to his spiritual life and family life! I believe everyone pursuing full-time ministry ought to also have some sort of vocational skill that they can fall back on should they have to take a sabbatical from the ministry. I know this goes against much of IFB-dom but too bad! I would much prefer one have an undergrad degree and life skills that will support a family before pursuing ministry training towards a graduate level degree. An MDiv used to be the standard for the pastorate and still is in most other situations aside from IFB. 

[Pastor Matt]

Right now, I'm 5 minutes into the first episode, and boy, they are painting with a very broad brush— lumping every IFB pastor into being like Hyles and Steve Anderson

[HappyChristian]

9 minutes ago, Pastor Matt said:

Right now, I'm 5 minutes into the first episode, and boy, they are painting with a very broad brush— lumping every IFB pastor into being like Hyles and Steve Anderson

Do you have a link? I looked and found several things but am not sure which is which. And broad brushing seems to be the way all of the abuse accusations become. I understand that there is evil and that it needs to be called out. But I do believe it waters down the impact of the actual abuse and its victims when the agenda includes folks never involved in it. Then it seems to be an agenda to destroy a group (in this instance the IFB) rather than to expose the evil and aid the victims. I do hope that is not the case with this.

[Pastor Matt]

It is on the ID channel. I have a paid Sling Subscription so I'm watching it on there. 

BTW, I'm outraged by what these men in authority have done to these young girls