Do We Also Have Bible-Based Doctrines That Are Wrong? Is There a Case for Women as Pastors?

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

4 hours ago, TheGloryLand said:

Now you are picking on my wine.  I heard it through the grapevine. Rick Warren, have taught you very well,  Dr.

I have watched his teaching from time to time, but not really anything on these issues.

2 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

And? Why shouldn't a female be as a "sent person." Doc, you just don't seem to be making any headway here. Sent and pastoring are two separate critters. 

Apostles and pastors were given the authority to teach congregations.

[TheGloryLand]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

I have watched his teaching from time to time, but not really anything on these issues.

Apostles and pastors were given the authority to teach congregations.

I am like the politicians. I gave your post a five star rating, this way the people on your side will like me.   Dr.

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

2 hours ago, Napsterdad said:

When I sit in on program meetings, we often cite people, events and places that are not among us as program managers. They are entities that stand out in our attention. They are of note. It is not out of place for someone in these meetings to say something similar to: 'Of note, so and so performed his/her job flawlessly, enabling our product to exceed expectations'. The person of note is not a program manager but is of note among us. Interestingly enough, they are not only "of note among us", they are also usually "esteemed by" and "well known to".

It is interesting that you keep pulling quotes from sources (i.e. CBMW) that are there for the sole purpose of promoting the views you support. No bias there, huh?

CBMW hold the opposite view to mine. They hold the complementarian view as opposed to the egalitarian view, which I hold. I showed you their material to indicate that what I am saying is broadly agreed upon with regard to the use of the word "among."

You can use the term "among" as you have described, however, in this context, according to both sides of the debate, that cannot be what the text means. Here are extracts from both:

CBMW, A Female Apostle? - "It is plain to see that most take the phrase en tois apostolois as a locative use of the dative as opposed to an instrumental one, the latter of which could denote a personal agent.61 In other words, most scholars understand the text to say that Andronicus and Iounian were themselves prominent “apostles,” whatever that term might denote, and not just highly esteemed by the Apostles.62"

CBE International, Junia, a Female Apostle: An Examination of the Historical Record, cite, "scholars make the grammatical point that “the Greek preposition en which is used here always has the idea of ‘within.’”70 Greek textbooks point out that en followed by the dative normally means “in, on, among.” For example, en tois is translated as “among those” (1 Cor 2:6), and en tois ethnesin as “among the Gentiles” (Acts 15:12, 1 Cor 5:1, Gal 2:2, Col 1:27, 1 Pet 2:12). Where en tois is followed by a plural noun referring to a group of people, the word en is typically translated as “among.”

[BrotherTony]

37 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

I have watched his teaching from time to time, but not really anything on these issues.

Apostles and pastors were given the authority to teach congregations.

And all Christians are supposed to disciple/teach others. Your point?

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

1 hour ago, TheGloryLand said:

Amazing answer, like Rick Warren you’re in the middle, I think. When talking about being liberal or conservative. Dr. Morley,  you’re pretty good. Keep quoting the Bible, even if it might be hard for you, to be using the King James bible all the time. Hopefully, it becomes your favorite Bible.

Thanks for the encouragement. I love the KJV, btw.

[Pastor Matt]

I thought the title of this thread was woman pastors not woman apostles. Apples are not oranges and vice versa

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

Why do you insist on acting obtuse, then argumentative, then you the bloviating "professor?" You say "we shouldn't use the obscure as a basis of our doctrine," yet you seem to have no problem adding your own beliefs and positions into the texts to back your positions. Astounding! I'm posting from my phone or I would go further into this post. I will once I have access to my laptop. 

The term "obscure" has to do with difficult texts as opposed to the more straightforward ones. 

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

1 hour ago, Napsterdad said:

You must not have read my rebuttal to your rendering of "who are of not among the apostles". I do not see how this succinctly identifies these two as apostles. 

 

I have read your comments. Their apostleship is derived from the meaning found in the words, "who are of note among the apostles." I've sent you more detail in another comment.

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

Why do you insist on acting obtuse, then argumentative, then you the bloviating "professor?"

I can assure you I am simply answering as best as I can, and without any malice.

[BrotherTony]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

The term "obscure" has to do with difficult texts as opposed to the more straightforward ones. 

I'm well aware of the meaning. People here aren't stupid, contrary to your continued insinuations. 

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

20 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

And all Christians are supposed to disciple/teach others. Your point?

The issue is about the authority to teach congregations.

[BrotherTony]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

I can assure you I am simply answering as best as I can, and without any malice.

Yet, you seem to act as if others understand nothing, especially when you continue to supply definitions of words that a kindergartener would know the definition of. Please.

1 minute ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

The issue is about the authority to teach congregations.

Wow! Now you want to try and stay somewhat on subject. Good. But, the way some of your answers are worded that's open to interpretation.

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

32 minutes ago, Pastor Matt said:

I thought the title of this thread was woman pastors not woman apostles. Apples are not oranges and vice versa

If apostles have the authority to teach congregations, which they do, and if Junia is an apostle, which the KJV says she is, then using an obscure passage like 1 Timothy 2:11-15 to restrict women from teaching with authority has no weight. Consequently, females can be pastors and teach with authority.

16 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

I'm well aware of the meaning. People here aren't stupid, contrary to your continued insinuations. 

I was not correcting you about the meaning of obscure. I was explaining the context in which I used the word. I love you, brother.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Dr. Robert S. Morley
added: I love you, brother.

[TheGloryLand]

34 minutes ago, Dr. Robert S. Morley said:

Thanks for the encouragement. I love the KJV, btw.

Your nose is growing my friend. You did almost convinced me.

[Dr. Robert S. Morley]

3 minutes ago, TheGloryLand said:

Your nose is growing my friend. You did almost convinced me.

 You don't recall me previously commenting on experience and appreciation of the KJV, and my son's exclusive use of it. As you know, outside of this site, I use other versions.