THE Great BLESSING OF ELECTION

[Iconoclast]

On 5/16/2022 at 9:48 AM, BrotherTony said:

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Really? More long diatribes from "scholars" on what the Bible teaches?

Take this "long diatribe" and attempt to answer any portion of it.

 

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I thought the Bible was supposed to be searched daily for the answers,

There are over 50 bible verses in this link, did you attempt to read it at all?

 

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not some mans views of theology.

God has given Pastors and teachers to the Church.

They are men, who are called by God, why would you mock them?

 

 

 

 

[Pastor Scott Markle]

 

21 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Really??  Ok, according to the Calvinistic system of belief did the Lord our God predetermine by His sovereign will alone, without any consideration of any characteristic in them or any conduct by them, for certain sinners to repent and believe, and thereby to be justified?

5 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

God viewed all mankind as fallen and dead in sin. If God did not do anything we would all be sent into second death.

God has an eternal plan before the world was;Rev

⁸ And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

There is nothing in us to commend ourselves to God.

The natural man will not seek God. It is God that seeks and saves sinners granting repentance and faith;Acts11

 

¹⁷ Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

¹⁸ When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

So, best I can discern, your answer to my question above is -- Yes, what I have presented in my question is that which the Calvinistic system of belief teaches.

21 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Furthermore, according to the Calvinistic system of belief did the Lord our God predetermine by His sovereign will that all human-kind would be made lost sinners in Adam by Adam's first disobedience?

5 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

God was not kidding at all when He said, dying thou shalt surely die. Mandkind was constitued sinners by Adams original transgression, and they sin all through their life.

In addition, within a different thread discussion -- "Calvinism or Arminianism? How do you answer?" -- you posted the following:

23 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

Because of Adam’s disobedience, the many were appointed by God to be sinners. They were put down in the category of and constituted to be sinners. (red emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)

So, best I can discern, your answer to my above question is -- Yes, the Calvinistic system of belief does indeed teach that because of Adam's disobedience, they were "appointed by God to be sinners," and thereby were constituted sinners in Adam.

21 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Finally, according to the Calvinistic system of belief did the Lord our God predetermine by His sovereign will that any lost sinner whom He has not sovereignly determined to regenerate shall never possess any ability or possibility whatsoever to repent and believe?

Now, whereas the previous two questions in my sequence set the context, this is the KEY question in my sequence.  For the answer of the Calvinistic system of belief is (as I mentioned earlier) my PRIMARY dispute (although not my only dispute) with the Calvinistic doctrine of election.  So then, what was your answer?

5 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

All men everywhere are commanded to repent and believe Acts17

They love sin rather than God. God savingly regenerates all the Father has given to the Son.

Those not elected are passed over, and left to themselves to repent and believe,

The door on the Ark was left open for a long time and the people did not want to enter.

from the 1689;

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

So, in this portion of your answer, you indicate that "those not elected are passed over," such that they are "left to themselves to repent and believe."  Yet we both know that no lost sinner has any ability or possibility to repent and believe apart from some "first work" of the Lord God upon their hearts (whether that "first work" be "prevenient grace" or "regenerating grace" or "drawing grace" or some other "first work of grace).

Even so, in my posting above I broke this question down into smaller parts, as follows:

21 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

According to the Calvinistic system of belief -

Has the Lord God sovereignly willed NOT to call them effectually?

5 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

There is a general outward call to all men who hear the word preached.

This is often rejected.

The effectual call is inward by the Spirit giving a new heart that welcomes the truth. Ezk 36:25-27

Chapter 10: Of Effectual Calling

1._____ Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.
( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )

2._____ This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead.
( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )

3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

4._____ Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess.
( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 )

Indeed, that which you placed in green teaches that "although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will NOR CAN truly come to Christ, and therefore CANNOT be saved."  So then, as best I can discern, the Calvinistic system of belief does indeed teach that the Lord God, by His sovereign will, appointed and constituted them to be sinners in and by Adam's first sin, passed them over from His "effectual calling" and from any ability or opportunity to repent and believe, and thus thereby determined that they can never come to Christ for salvation.

21 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

According to the Calvinistic system of belief -

Has the Lord God sovereignly willed that they cannot (have no ability or possibility) come to Christ?

5 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

They are passed over or left, theogians speak of preterition, as highlighted in section4, bolded in green

So, the portion that you bolded in green above is your answer - Yes, the Calvinistic system of belief teachest that God passed them over, such that "they neither will NOR CAN truly come to Christ, and therefore CANNOT be saved."  Indeed, the Calvinistic system of belief teaches that the Lord God sovereignly willed that they will NEVER have any ability or possibility to come unto Christ.

21 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

According to the Calvinistic system of belief -

Has the Lord God sovereignly willed that they cannot (have no ability or possibility) be saved?

5 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

The promise of God is freely offered to all men, and everyone believing will be saved.

Yet you have already revealed to us the teaching in the Calvinistic system of belief that the Lord God has sovereignly willed to pass some over, such that they CANNOT come unto Christ and CANNOT be saved. 

Now, you state that the Calvinistic system of belief teaches that "the promise of God is freely offered to all men."  Yet you have already revealed that, according to the Calvinistic system of belief, in order for that offer actually to be receivable it must be accompanied by God's sovereign work of "effectual calling."  Even so, according to the Calvinistic system of belief, for those to whom the Lord God has not granted His sovereign work of "effectual calling the offer of God's promise is in empty word only, since it is not accompanied by any work of God's grace to support it.

As for myself, I firmly and boldly declare -- GOD FORBID!  This is NOT the Lord God of Holy Scripture!

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Pastor Scott Markle

[Jim_Alaska]

2 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

Hello Jim,

Several have set aside quotes from Godly Pastors and teachers calling then heretics and the teaching hogwash.

Do you think this is acceptable?

I quoted a section from JP Boyce, abstract of systematic theology, and it was mocked. It is used by most seminaries and was a foundational statement of the SBC.

The poster suggested I use the bible? the link had over 50 bible verses

 

Deflection doesn't work with me. My post to you stands as written.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

4 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

So, the portion that you bolded in green above is your answer - Yes, the Calvinistic system of belief teaches that God passed them over, such that "they neither will NOR CAN truly come to Christ, and therefore CANNOT be saved."  Indeed, the Calvinistic system of belief teaches that the Lord God sovereignly willed that they will NEVER have any ability or possibility to come unto Christ.

The Calvinistic system of belief would have us to believe that God our Savior has sovereignly willed that some should be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth, but that the rest should have no ability or possibility ever to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth.  Furthermore, the Calvinistic system of belief would have us to believe that God our Savior has sovereignly willed that some should not perish, but come to repentance, yet that the rest should most certainly perish because they shall have no ability or possibility ever to come unto repentance.

However, God's Holy Word teaches otherwise concerning our Lord God's gracious will:

1 Timothy 2:3-4 -- "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

2 Peter 3:9 -- "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

[Iconoclast]

49 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

The Calvinistic system of belief would have us to believe that God our Savior has sovereignly willed that some should be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth, but that the rest should have no ability or possibility ever to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth.  Furthermore, the Calvinistic system of belief would have us to believe that God our Savior has sovereignly willed that some should not perish, but come to repentance, yet that the rest should most certainly perish because they shall have no ability or possibility ever to come unto repentance.

However, God's Holy Word teaches otherwise concerning our Lord God's gracious will:

1 Timothy 2:3-4 -- "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

2 Peter 3:9 -- "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Everyone mentioned in 2 pet 3: 9 is going to be saved as it is speaking of the elect....to-usward.

Your non Calvinist view describes a God who wants all men to be saved but cannot save them as your understanding of the verse is off.

The Calvinist understanding is that God saves each and every person He desires to save.

He does not try and fail but has ordained each lost sheep to be found.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

12 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

Everyone mentioned in 2 pet 3: 9 is going to be saved as it is speaking of the elect....to-usward.

Actually, the pronouns of the three phrases in the second half of 2 Peter 3:9 are not the same, and thus it is not grammatically necessary that they be equivalent to one another:

1.  But is longsuffering to us-ward
2.  Not willing that any should perish
3.  But that all should come to repentance

However, the context of 1 Timothy 2:1-6 places even greater emphasis upon the point:

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom FOR ALL, to be testified in due time."

12 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

Your non Calvinist view describes a God who wants all men to be saved but cannot save them as your understanding of the verse is off.

Indeed, the Biblical view of God our Savior is that He graciously desires for all men to be saved, and gracious draws all men unto Christ, but that He has established the gracious plan that each sinner must willingly respond to His gracious drawing and must willingly receive Christ through faith as personal Savior.

Revelation 22:17 -- "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.  And let him that heareth say, Come.  And let him that is athirst come.  And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

12 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

The Calvinist understanding is that God saves each and every person He desires to save.

He does not try and fail but has ordained each lost sheep to be found.

Indeed, the Calvinistic system of belief would have us to believe that the Lord God is interested only in saving some sinners, but is not interested at all whatsoever in saving the rest, that He desires to save some and certainly saves those, but has no actual desire to save any of the rest, that every lost sinner who shall spend eternity under God's wrath in the lake of fire shall be there because God simply had no desire of love, grace, or mercy at all to save them and thus did not provide any way whatsoever for their salvation.  Therefore, the Calvinistic system of belief presents a doctrine of abundant divine grace for some, but also presents a doctrine of utter divine hatred for the rest.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Pastor Scott Markle
spelling

[Iconoclast]

11 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Actually, the pronouns of the three phrases in the second half of 2 Peter 3:9 are not the same, and thus it is not grammatically necessary that they be equivalent to one another:

1.  But is longsuffering to us-ward
2.  Not willing that any should perish
3.  But that all should come to repentance

However, the context of 1 Timothy 2:1-6 places even greater emphasis upon the point:

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom FOR ALL, to be testified in due time."

Indeed, the Biblical view of God our Savior is that He graciously desires for all men to be saved, and gracious draws all men unto Christ, but that He has established the gracious plan that each sinner must willingly respond to His gracious drawing and must willingly receive Christ through faith as personal Savior.

Revelation 22:17 -- "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.  And let him that heareth say, Come.  And let him that is athirst come.  And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

Indeed, the Calvinistic system of belief would have us to believe that the Lord God is interested only in saving some sinners, but is not interested at all whatsoever in saving the rest, that He desires to save some and certainly saves those, but has no actual desire to save any of the rest, that every lost sinner who shall spend eternity under God's wrath in the lake of fire shall be there because God simply had no desire of love, grace, or mercy at all to save them and thus did not provide any way whatsoever for their salvation.  Therefore, the Calvinistic system of belief presents a doctrine of abundant divine grace for some, but also presents a doctrine of utter divine hatred for the rest.

Here Scott tries his grammatical  double speak to attempt to deny the to-usward is speaking to the elect Peter is writing to.

Peter is contrasting the mockers and scoffers pointing out that the longsuffering of God results in the salvation of all elect persons.

God is not willing that any perish, and indeed they will not perish.

Not one person spoken of will perish.

[Jim_Alaska]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast said:

Here Scott tries his grammatical  double speak to attempt to deny the to-usward is speaking to the elect Peter is writing to.

Peter is contrasting the mockers and scoffers pointing out that the longsuffering of God results in the salvation of all elect persons.

God is not willing that any perish, and indeed they will not perish.

Not one person spoken of will perish.

It is preposterously amazing how a Calvinist, or a person blinded by Calvinist doctrine, can twist Scripture to make it conform to what he or she believes, rather than letting Scripture form his or her belief system.

As proven in this thread, their tenacity to wrest Scripture would interpret a Scripture such as this: Revelation 22:17 -- "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.  And let him that heareth say, Come.  And let him that is athirst come.  And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." to indicate that God did not mean what He clearly said. In this instance God clearly said "whosoever", but He really meant only the elect.

This would indicate that the God of all Heaven and earth is incapable of expressing what He clearly means.

This leaves us with only two choices: believe Iconoclast or believe God; I think I will choose to believe the God that saved a wretch like me.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

John 1:9 -- "That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the world."

John 12:32 -- "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me."

Romans 5:18b -- "Even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life."

1 Timothy 2:3-6 -- "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time."

1 Timothy 4:10 -- "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe."

Titus 2:11 -- "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL MEN."

1 John 2:2 -- "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD."

I wonder -- Is it "grammatical double-speak" for us to quote God's Holy Word as it is directly written under the specific inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, and then to accept it to be the very truth as it is so written?  Or, is it "double-speak" to claim that what is directly written in God's Holy Word under the specific inspiration of God the Holy Spirit does not really mean what it actually says?

[heartstrings]

The term "election", as used in passages like Romans chapter 9, has nothing to do with choosing people to be saved. What it does refer to is God's purpose. The Jews, who Paul is addressing in Romans 9, for instance, actually thought that salvation only belonged to them only simply because of they were children of Abraham and because of their works. Actually, they were of a sort of "Calvinistic" mindset themselves. in the sense that they considered themselves and only themselves "chosen by God".

God's "elect" are those who have come to God by faith and lead others to do the same by that same faith, demonstrated by their works. Jesus is "elect", Israel is "elect" there are angels which are "elect". It basically means they are chosen to serve God's divine purpose. Another word, "predestination", has to do with being conformed to the image of Christ.

Neither term is used to refer to or address individuals(except for the "elect lady). God's "elect" and "predestinated" are referred to by the pronouns "us" we" "those" and "them"; always a group. God chose that His people(plural) would do His specific purpose, that is, believe by faith and win others by faith. and He chose that His people (plural) would be conformed to the image of Jesus. I, for instance, will one day be like Jesus. NOT by any of my own works, but by the all powerful and wise purpose; the "election" of God. But to get to that I heard the Gospel and trusted Jesus by faith. I could have said "no, some other time" just as Felix did, but I realized the Love and righteousness of Jesus, knew I was a wicked evil sinner, and didn't want to go to Hell. Believing on the Lord, in my experience, was a totally selfish act on my part. There is no goodness or merit in simply believing on Him in faith and repentance. None whatsoever.

[Iconoclast]

4 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

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It is preposterously amazing how a Calvinist, or a person blinded by Calvinist doctrine, can twist Scripture to make it conform to what he or she believes, rather than letting Scripture form his or her belief system.

Hello Jim

Perhaps I could clarify a bit and you let me know where you think I twist something.

3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

Peter is writing to the Elect. Do I say that because As a calvinist I am looking to insert the word elect everywhere? Or does the text teach it?

Notice he remarks this is his second epistle...let's see who he is writing to>

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

² Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

King James Version (KJV)

In 2pet1:10 he urges these elect believers to make their calling and election sure.

So when he refers to them as beloved in 2pet3:1...and calls them to remembrance we know without a doubt who is being addressed.

He contrasts these elect brethren with the ungodly scoffers and mockers.

I will highlight the believers being spoken about in blue, and the ungodly in green.

3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

² That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

³ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

⁴ And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

⁵ For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

⁶ Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

⁷ But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

 

⁸ But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

⁹ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

¹⁰ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

¹¹ Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

¹² Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

¹³ Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

¹⁴ Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

¹⁵ And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

¹⁶ As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

¹⁷ Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

¹⁸ But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

Now Jim do you see any twisting here, or do you agree here?

[Iconoclast]

Jim posted;

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as proven in this thread, their tenacity to wrest Scripture would interpret a Scripture such as this: Revelation 22:17 -- "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come.  And let him that heareth say, Come.  And let him that is athirst come.  And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." to indicate that God did not mean what He clearly said. In this instance God clearly said "whosoever", but He really meant only the elect.

Whosoever is given as an invitation to come and take of the water of life freely. Calvinists love this verse as well as Mt11:

²⁸ Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

²⁹ Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

³⁰ For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

Wevlove these verses but we understand that any who come are effectually called by God.

Why does that disturb you?

[Iconoclast]

3 hours ago, heartstrings said:

Hello HS,

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The term "election", as used in passages like Romans chapter 9, has nothing to do with choosing people to be saved

.I am not quite sure how you can say that, but we have not interacted that much so I will wait and see if you clarify what you mean.

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What it does refer to is God's purpose.

 

Which is what?

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The Jews, who Paul is addressing in Romans 9, for instance, actually thought that salvation only belonged to them only simply because of they were children of Abraham and because of their works

.Agreed , they trusted in their geneology, and self righteousness

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Actually, they were of a sort of "Calvinistic" mindset themselves. in the sense that they considered themselves and only themselves "chosen by God".

Partly right based on this;

3 Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

² You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

God had elected that one nation to elect many of them to be saved. They misunderstood where they stood before God thinking that God considered them special because of themselves rather than His grace extended to them.

3 hours ago, heartstrings said:

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God's "elect" are those who have come to God by faith and lead others to do the same by that same faith, demonstrated by their works. Jesus is "elect", Israel is "elect" there are angels which are "elect". It basically means they are chosen to serve God's divine purpose.

1]

1]Jesus is elect...YES The servant of Lord

2] Israel as a nation out of which some individuals were elected to be saints

3]elect angels..yes

4]Elect individuals

3 hours ago, heartstrings said:

 

 

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Another word, "predestination", has to do with being conformed to the image of Christ.

Correct,100%

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Neither term is used to refer to or address individuals(except for the "elect lady).

Not accurate

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 God's "elect" and "predestinated" are referred to by the pronouns "us" we" "those" and "them"; always a group.

A mix of some true things and some a blurry mix.

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I, for instance, will one day be like Jesus. NOT by any of my own works, but by the all powerful and wise purpose; the "election" of God.

HS, this is because of Romans 8 :29-39..called the golden Chain of redemption.

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But to get to that I heard the Gospel and trusted Jesus by faith. I could have said "no, some other time" just as Felix did, but I realized the Love and righteousness of Jesus, knew I was a wicked evil sinner, and didn't want to go to Hell. Believing on the Lord, in my experience, was a totally selfish act on my part. There is no goodness or merit in simply believing on Him in faith and repentance. None whatsoever.

Thanks for sharing your public confession of Christ.

 

[Iconoclast]

9 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

John 1:9 -- "That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the world."

John 12:32 -- "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me."

Romans 5:18b -- "Even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life."

1 Timothy 2:3-6 -- "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time."

1 Timothy 4:10 -- "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe."

Titus 2:11 -- "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL MEN."

1 John 2:2 -- "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD."

I wonder -- Is it "grammatical double-speak" for us to quote God's Holy Word as it is directly written under the specific inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, and then to accept it to be the very truth as it is so written?  Or, is it "double-speak" to claim that what is directly written in God's Holy Word under the specific inspiration of God the Holy Spirit does not really mean what it actually says?

God;s word is God's word fully inspired in the original autographs, That being said it does need to be properly understood. I do not question God's word at all. I find several of your views highly questionable.

Do not make as if I find God's word as to not mean what it says when I am questioning your personal view which i find with many errors

Edited May 19, 2022 by Iconoclast
mispelling

[Iconoclast]

how do you edit misspelled words? where is the edit button