Baptist are Saved by Faith, and not by Works

[Jerry]

Some info from Wikipedia - just for general info, I am sure wickedpedia has its biases.

Ian Paisley - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Presbyterian_Church_of_Ulster

Both this last link and others on Free Presbyterian indicate their doctrinal position is Fundamentalist Calvinism

The fact they are not independent is my biggest problem with them - but the preachers I have listened to throughout the years don't seem to have their sermons and subjects dictated to them (like some denominations)**. Perhaps this denomination's affiliation with other Free Presbyterian churches is to make sure they do not depart from their fundamentalist doctrine and practices - though if the headquarters goes astray and enforces their changes down the line, then that would certainly be a problem.

**I got saved in an Alliance church, and that is how they were in the 90's. Headquarters dictated what was taught in each sunday school class, and any deviation from that curriculum in an individual church had to be approved or they could get in trouble with their headquarters.

[BrotherTony]

I don't know what Grace Presbyterian in Peoria, IL was, but when I was in high school at Peoria Christian School, it was pastored by a Baptist. He was there for many years, and I attended there when I had to work in Peoria on Sundays at Mr. Steak. I know their lessons weren't "dictated" by the denomination. 

[1Timothy115]

17 hours ago, Jerry said:

Some info from Wikipedia - just for general info, I am sure wickedpedia has its biases.

Ian Paisley - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Presbyterian_Church_of_Ulster

Both this last link and others on Free Presbyterian indicate their doctrinal position is Fundamentalist Calvinism

The fact they are not independent is my biggest problem with them - but the preachers I have listened to throughout the years don't seem to have their sermons and subjects dictated to them (like some denominations)**. Perhaps this denomination's affiliation with other Free Presbyterian churches is to make sure they do not depart from their fundamentalist doctrine and practices - though if the headquarters goes astray and enforces their changes down the line, then that would certainly be a problem.

**I got saved in an Alliance church, and that is how they were in the 90's. Headquarters dictated what was taught in each sunday school class, and any deviation from that curriculum in an individual church had to be approved or they could get in trouble with their headquarters.

There was no Calvinism in the sermons preached by Dr. Paisley when he preached at Tabernacle.

[Jerry]

When they don't preach on their Calvinism, they have a lot of excellent messages. My two favourite Free Presbyterians - often listened to in years past - are Alan Cairns (Greenville, SC, Let The Bible Speak Radio) and William McCrea (from Magherafelt Free Presbyterian Church). Clarence Sexton has preached at McCrea's church multiple times through the years. Cairns retired but still does some preaching, and I think his old sermons can be found at SermonAudio.com and in podcast apps.

[1Timothy115]

I can't see Dr. Bell allowing a Calvinist to preach from the pulpit...just wouldn't happen. Bell was firm on evangelism and soul winning outreach. 

"Paisley’s claim, therefore, to be a ‘Calvinist’ and a ‘Presbyterian’ are open to serious question. His Calvinist claims are open to question because of the evangelistic methods he employed. His mental and sometimes physical force conversions—getting people to ‘stand for Jesus’—have more in common with the Arminianism and ‘Revivalism’ of Charles Finney than with the theology of John Calvin."

History Ireland

However, Paisley may have been in a similar mold to Spurgeon, a Calvinist. Some 'Old school' Calvinists did preach Ephesians 2:8-9 for salvation.

[BrotherTony]

I know many Calvinists who are great soulwinners. They firmly believe that God alone knows who will and who won't be saved, and that it's their job to preach/present the Gospel to everyone. I don't believe I know but a handful of Calvinists who don't witness actively. 

[Jim_Alaska]

The title of this thread is more than a little odd, it seems to try to set Baptists apart from others. Anyone that is saved is saved by faith, not works; it is not only Baptists that are saved this way. There is no other way to be saved.

Baptist are Saved by Faith, and not by Works

[Jerry]

Morales has a bad habit of separating Baptists from everyone else when he is posting or starting threads. Yes, there are some Baptist Distinctives and some things Baptists stand for and believe (historically anyway) that some other people or denominations don't - but usually his posts don't seem to be about positive things, but seem to be about lumping all "Baptists" together in some negative sense.

[Jim_Alaska]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

Morales has a bad habit of separating Baptists from everyone else when he is posting or starting threads. Yes, there are some Baptist Distinctives and some things Baptists stand for and believe (historically anyway) that some other people or denominations don't - but usually his posts don't seem to be about positive things, but seem to be about lumping all "Baptists" together in some negative sense.

I noticed that too Jerry; that's why I said what I did.

[TheGloryLand]

4 hours ago, Jerry said:

Morales has a bad habit of separating Baptists from everyone else when he is posting or starting threads. Yes, there are some Baptist Distinctives and some things Baptists stand for and believe (historically anyway) that some other people or denominations don't - but usually his posts don't seem to be about positive things, but seem to be about lumping all "Baptists" together in some negative sense.

I don’t agree with you, and yes Baptist our separated from others, to those that do like to add works to be part of salvation. Pretty much, if you’re not doing works, you’re not Saved. This is incorrect. Also there are those Baptists, that do not do an invitation for salvation, because they believe those that are Saved, are already called, this is also incorrect.

[Jim_Alaska]

4 hours ago, E Morales said:

I don’t agree with you, and yes Baptist our separated from others, to those that do like to add works to be part of salvation. Pretty much, if you’re not doing works, you’re not Saved. This is incorrect. Also there are those Baptists, that do not do an invitation for salvation, because they believe those that are Saved, are already called, this is also incorrect.

This doesn't make sense to me, all of it. I can't tell what you are saying, from what you are saying others say.

As far as an invitation goes, there is no requirement for an invitation, nothing wrong with one, but it is not required. God's Word is sufficient to save anyone, without me also inviting them.

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Romans 4:6 (KJV) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

[Napsterdad]

5 hours ago, E Morales said:

I don’t agree with you, and yes Baptist our separated from others, to those that do like to add works to be part of salvation. Pretty much, if you’re not doing works, you’re not Saved. This is incorrect. Also there are those Baptists, that do not do an invitation for salvation, because they believe those that are Saved, are already called, this is also incorrect.

Let me start by stating I do not qualify myself as a Baptist. I am a Christian that, since salvation, has tended toward IFB churches because they seem to me to adhere the closest to the Bible. Having said that, I think you are off base here, Morales. From your post above it appears you are lumping all baptists into one basket; those that “add works to be a part of salvation”. I have been to a number of IFBs, and a few SBC and ABC churches, and none of them have taught that works are required for salvation. I’m not saying they are not out there, but the dozen or more that I have been to or attended did not advocate that.

In your same post you state that “there are those Baptists, that do not do an invitation for salvation”. Are you saying that an invitation is required in order for someone to get saved? Would this not be works based salvation? Worse yet, this would be a work that would have to be done be someone other than the one getting saved (the inviter). That really puts salvation on perilous footing.

I believe the last part of your quote refers to Calvinists. Are you saying that because some Calvinists are Baptists, all Baptists are Calvinist? Wouldn’t that be throwing the baby out with the bath water? Did you know that Baptists aren’t the only denomination where you can find Calvinists? There are many denominations that have outliers linked to Calvinistic principles in varying degrees: Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutheran, Protestant Reformed, United Church of Christ, etc., but you can hardly say they are all 100% committed Calvinists.

I am not saying that there are not Baptists out there with errant doctrine, but to lump them all into a group that believes in works based salvation (or any other errant doctrine) is a grievous error. If that is, however, how you chose to roll, how about you give us the denomination that you affiliate with. This way, we can find the doctrinally deviant outliers from your denomination and cast you in as part of that problem as well.

[Jerry]

On 3/13/2022 at 1:16 PM, Invicta said:

I have not met any Evangelical churches that call themselves Protestant. I have been in Baptist churches that call themselves Protestant.  Most of all of them would be called reformed.

Yes, because they are Reformed Calvinists, claiming to teach Reformed doctrine (ie. of the Protestant Reformation). Masters Theological Seminary (the MacArthur crowd) claims this, as does Piper, Sproul, and other popular mainstream Calvinists. I would be curious to know which ones are actually Protestant in their positions (ie. take a stand and preach against Roman Catholicism or Greek Orthodoxy). It does appear that many Baptists do claim to be Protestants in that sense - though maybe they use the terms Reformed Doctrine and Reformed Calvinism to make a distinction between them and between actual Protestants.

[TheGloryLand]

7 hours ago, Napsterdad said:

Let me start by stating I do not qualify myself as a Baptist. I am a Christian that, since salvation, has tended toward IFB churches because they seem to me to adhere the closest to the Bible. Having said that, I think you are off base here, Morales. From your post above it appears you are lumping all baptists into one basket; those that “add works to be a part of salvation”. I have been to a number of IFBs, and a few SBC and ABC churches, and none of them have taught that works are required for salvation. I’m not saying they are not out there, but the dozen or more that I have been to or attended did not advocate that.

In your same post you state that “there are those Baptists, that do not do an invitation for salvation”. Are you saying that an invitation is required in order for someone to get saved? Would this not be works based salvation? Worse yet, this would be a work that would have to be done be someone other than the one getting saved (the inviter). That really puts salvation on perilous footing.

I believe the last part of your quote refers to Calvinists. Are you saying that because some Calvinists are Baptists, all Baptists are Calvinist? Wouldn’t that be throwing the baby out with the bath water? Did you know that Baptists aren’t the only denomination where you can find Calvinists? There are many denominations that have outliers linked to Calvinistic principles in varying degrees: Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutheran, Protestant Reformed, United Church of Christ, etc., but you can hardly say they are all 100% committed Calvinists.

I am not saying that there are not Baptists out there with errant doctrine, but to lump them all into a group that believes in works based salvation (or any other errant doctrine) is a grievous error. If that is, however, how you chose to roll, how about you give us the denomination that you affiliate with. This way, we can find the doctrinally deviant outliers from your denomination and cast you in as part of that problem as well.

You said, In your same post you state that “there are those Baptists, that do not do an invitation for salvation”. Are you saying that an invitation is required in order for someone to get saved? Would this not be works based salvation? Worse yet, this would be a work that would have to be done be someone other than the one getting saved (the inviter). 

The inviter, can be any man or woman being used by God. This is not works, but a person moved by the Holy Spirit. How can they hear, if there is no one sharing the gospel.  

[BrotherTony]

16 minutes ago, E Morales said:

You said, In your same post you state that “there are those Baptists, that do not do an invitation for salvation”. Are you saying that an invitation is required in order for someone to get saved? Would this not be works based salvation? Worse yet, this would be a work that would have to be done be someone other than the one getting saved (the inviter). 

The inviter, can be any man or woman being used by God. This is not works, but a person moved by the Holy Spirit. How can they hear, if there is no one sharing the gospel.  

There are SOME Baptist churches that don't give an invitation...not many, but I do know of a few that we have visited in the past that didn't. There are many evangelical churches that also don't give an invitation, but do tell people near the end of the service that if they feel they need to make a decision and would like help or want to pray with someone to speak to the deacons or one of the church staff and they will do what they can to help. Having an invitation, when one walks up an aisle, it's not a work....I don't know where you'd get such an idea.