Southern Baptists elect Ed Litton as their president, a defeat for the hard right

[Bouncing Bill]

3 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Please, be a little bit more clear on what you're looking for here. What you had "quoted" from me didn't really fit the bill. It gave me NO IDEA of what you're speaking or implying. 

I apologize Tony. I copied the wrong sentence. Here is the one I was responding to:

There is no Scriptural justification for any kind of convention, association, or fellowship as separate entities from the local church that have any say at all in what a local church does or says.

That is true. But also, there, to my knowledge, is no statement saying such associations are wrong. Therefore I do not believe your statement implying such conventions, associations, etc. are wrong. I am neither defending or condemning them here.

Because the Bible makes no statement on a topic or action does not mean that topic or action is either a good or a bad topic or action. If we said everything the Bible is silent about mean that action, idea, topic, etc. was wrong then we would have to eliminate just about everything from our life that is modern. 

So, I contend that your statement, while true, does not mean associations, conventions, etc. are bad or evil. It is illogical, IMHO. After all, there is no scriptural justification for driving a car, flying in an airplane, eating ice cream, voting in an election etc., etc., etc. Where scripture is silent we have to use logic, ethics, common sense, etc. in our decisions. 

Blessings. 

 

[BrotherTony]

Bouncing Bill, that's no problem. Personally I don't like Associations conventions or fellowships. They all seem to take the place of the Holy Spirit in guiding things, and I don't like what I've seen inside them.  

[SureWord]

I don't see anything in scripture for or against conventions but I do know that any man-made group, organization or body will decline and apostatize over time especially if there's money and resources (which equal power) involved. What's happening in the SBC has nothing to do with "equality" or setting right the wrongs of the past it's just one big monetary shakedown part of the larger picture that's going on in America. If you don't believe that look at the co-founder of BLM who in her fight for "equity" (not equality she already has that) bought four mansions with white fragility money in the whitest neighborhoods she could find.

[Bouncing Bill]

3 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Bouncing Bill, that's no problem. Personally I don't like Associations conventions or fellowships. They all seem to take the place of the Holy Spirit in guiding things, and I don't like what I've seen inside them.  

I knew you position and I will defend you right to that opinion. That was not my problem with your stance. I may have misinterpreted your meaning. It seemed to me that you implied that being a part of a denomination is a sin and that all involved are sinners. Well, all are sinners, but for other reasons. 

I expect the independent fundamentalist church is primary an American institution. There may be some in Europe, but I have not heard of any. I have come to believe that we Americans have developed such that we place too much emphasis on the individual and not enough on the group. 

To me there are problems in either area, independent or in a convention. There are problems in both as people are involved in both. Whether independent on in a convention the Holy Spirit may be ignored from guidance. To me the work of the Holy Spirit is involved in the live of all individual Christians. 

[BrotherTony]

17 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

I knew you position and I will defend you right to that opinion. That was not my problem with your stance. I may have misinterpreted your meaning. It seemed to me that you implied that being a part of a denomination is a sin and that all involved are sinners. Well, all are sinners, but for other reasons. 

I expect the independent fundamentalist church is primary an American institution. There may be some in Europe, but I have not heard of any. I have come to believe that we Americans have developed such that we place too much emphasis on the individual and not enough on the group. 

To me there are problems in either area, independent or in a convention. There are problems in both as people are involved in both. Whether independent on in a convention the Holy Spirit may be ignored from guidance. To me the work of the Holy Spirit is involved in the live of all individual Christians. 

I would in no way say that people inside a convention or fellowship were sinning. We're all flawed, as you say...we're all sinners. I was raised in the IFB movement and was in it until 2000, when my wife and I had experienced and seen enough of the abuse of others and left. There is somewhat of a problem in the SBC with abuse as well, and it's, at times, disconcerting to see people in positions of authority abusing their positions. The SBC itself seems to be on a downward spiral, as evidenced by the actions inside of the convention meetings this week. UGH! I really don't like being inside a convention. But, I go where God leads me.

[Bouncing Bill]

1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

I would in no way say that people inside a convention or fellowship were sinning. We're all flawed, as you say...we're all sinners. I was raised in the IFB movement and was in it until 2000, when my wife and I had experienced and seen enough of the abuse of others and left. There is somewhat of a problem in the SBC with abuse as well, and it's, at times, disconcerting to see people in positions of authority abusing their positions. The SBC itself seems to be on a downward spiral, as evidenced by the actions inside of the convention meetings this week. UGH! I really don't like being inside a convention. But, I go where God leads me.

To me the SBC has been on a downward slope since the, so called, conservative takeover in the 1970s and 1980s. To me this was a move away from Christ and toward political politics. Again, to me it was mover about grabbing power than in presenting Christ. 

The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and the Alliance of Baptist grew out of this when churches split away from the SBC. The church I attend was both SBC and American Baptist before the takeover. I live in a border state and it made sense to cooperate with both. A number of years after the takeover we explored how to divorce the SBC. There seemed no formal way other than to take SBC off the letterhead and stop giving money to the Cooperative Program. 

We are small but very diverse in ethnicity, racially, educationly, and in professions. What we do have is lots of love. It is a family. I was proud of our little group when we raised $5,000 to help a woman in the church who was in desperate need. We average 20 to 25 adults a Sunday and yet we have a budget of over $1,00,000. We have never ended a year in the red. We have direct contact with Baptist in Zimbabwe and helped an orphanage dig a well, yes, some of our members traveled there and helped. We helped them purchase a new pickup truck last year. We also have members who have worked in seminaries in Europe and Russia. This little group has friends and influence around the globe. 

Our goal has nothing to do with national politics, though we follow what is going on in both parties. Politics and Christ do not mix. When a church becomes involved in politics, politics does not become clear, but the church does become dirty. 

We are active in helping with a food bank, in helping the homeless and strive to improve race relations.  There are some Baptist churches in our area who do not like us. I consider that their problem, not ours. 

So, our goal is to put Christ first and follow his life, leading, and teachings as shown in the gospels. 

We would like to be larger, but not over 100 people. To me even 100 might be too large. Looking back over our history that does not seem to be what God wants us to be.

I consider myself a traditional Baptist, not a modern one. 

Blessings.