Textual/version stance

[Guest Guest]

1.) Why don't you do your own research, instead of just quoting Cloud's "research".

Primarliy because I don't own any of his books. I heard him speak on cassete tapes years ago, he was presented to me at the time as a solid biblical KVJ defender and I didn't know otherwise, yet, I heard so much garbage on the half dozen tapes I listened to I tossed out the whole set for the trash it was. Been opposed to his false teachings ever since.

2.) Dr. Ruckman never said the TR was corrupt. He just said the KJV was superior.

No difference. If someone believes that the TR is perfect then how could the KJV be superior? If the TR is not perfect it is corrupt. It is that simple.

Didn't you ask earlier why there would ever need to be another translation in english beside the KVJ if it was perfect? And what did I respond? The only reason there would ever be a "need" is if the language at some point was changed enough that the KJV could not be read. I clearly stated that if there ever was new faithful translation it would not be superior in content, it would just be readable. The Hebrew and the Greek text are in no way inferior to the KJV, the KJV is just readable by english readers. If Greek and Hebrew were our native tongues there would be no need for the KJV.

[Bakershalfdozen]

Kathie, we've been down this road before. :smile "Translate" in the Bible is not the same word we use today for speaking/writing something in another langauge. Just like "conversation" in the Bible is not the word we use today for speaking with another person.

[Jerry]

Jerry...I would get it from Dr. Peter Ruckman's mouth instead of articles by David Cloud and various other people who have twisted what Ruckman has preached over the years. The game "telephone" comes into my mind. People repeat what they hear and they love to add a little extra nonsense to the truth each time they speak. Man is certainly jealous...speaking of David Cloud' date=' here.[/quote']

Why would Cloud be jealous of a false teacher that takes extreme positions on the KJV issue? By the way, instead of stating he is taking things out of context, prove him wrong. Pretty easy to do. Look up the quotes he gives (usually with page numbers listed), then show how he is taking them out of context.

[Guest Guest]

The KJV will always be superior. That is fact. :thumb I have never heard Ruckman say the TR was corrupt, either. Hmm? Can anyone say...David Cloud?

candlelight

[Guest Guest]

Seth, which TR is your final authority? There are quite a few of them, in case you weren't aware.

[Guest Guest]

Jerry...I would get it from Dr. Peter Ruckman's mouth instead of articles by David Cloud and various other people who have twisted what Ruckman has preached over the years. The game "telephone" comes into my mind. People repeat what they hear and they love to add a little extra nonsense to the truth each time they speak. Man is certainly jealous...speaking of David Cloud, here.

Candlelight,

Those quotes I used came directly from ruckman's books. There is no way that Cloud is "slandering" ruckman by quoting what ruckman says in his own books. Now if you could show that Cloud made up those quotes and they aren't found in ruckman's writings, then you would have a point. I doubt that is the case. I have heard ruckman's own preaching and it had a bunch of unbiblical stuff in it. I have no reason to suppose that Cloud would make up false quotes and attribute them to ruckman. If that was the case he would get tons of letters denying that ruckman's books said that. Ruckman is condemned by his own mouth, not by David Clouds.

[Guest Guest]

The KJV will always be superior.

How can the KJV be superior to the TR if the TR is perfect? If the TR is not perfect what would that make it?

[Guest Guest]

Kathie' date=' we've been down this road before. :smile "Translate" in the Bible is not the same word we use today for speaking/writing something in another langauge. Just like "conversation" in the Bible is not the word we use today for speaking with another person.[/quote']

This is the problem. Most people have a hard time understanding that the Bible is not defined by the dictionary. God used the words He intended, not the words people want Him to use. The Bible defines itself, cross-references itself, and is its own authority on itself. The issue is that it's God's definition of "translation", not the dictionary's definition of "translation".

For someone whose sole authority is the King James Bible, the Bible's definition of a word is all that matters. Websters or the OED is not the authority on the Bible; The Bible is the authority on the Bible. When someone tries to explain away the translation of the Bible instead of relying on God's definition of that word, they set the dictionary as authoritative over the Bible.

[Guest Guest]

Dr. Ruckman is NOT a false teacher. I don't understand OB with this? As far as "extreme positions" on the KJV issue? Then, call me an extremist. The KJV 1611 AV is superior. God wrote it...and, isn't Jesus Christ superior? Yes, that is simple to me.

As far as Cloud being jealous? That is a laugh. There is always going to be arguing and competition w/ man. It is human nature...it is called sin. Satan loves to cause this kind of turmoil amongst human beings. The Devil is always on a mission to cause chaos. It is his game...but, I know that the Lord Jesus has full control. I hold true to His word.

candlelight

[Guest Guest]

How can the KJV be superior to the TR if the TR is perfect? If the TR is not perfect what would that make it?

Seth...did you really read what I wrote on the TR and CT? I got that little bit of information in just one day. Imagine what I can find if I did full research on it? Imagine, what anyone will find? I know my sources are accurate on that. People just need to go to the right source. If anyone can dispute what I said...go for it!

Of course, the KJV 1611 AV will always be superior. God is it's author. This is plain and simple in my mind. :uuhm:

candlelight

[Guest Guest]

Of course, the KJV 1611 AV will always be superior. God is it's author. This is plain and simple in my mind.

Who in your opinion is the author of the Greek and Hebrew? God or man?

[Guest Guest]

Seth, which TR is your final authority? There are quite a few of them, in case you weren't aware.

Hey Seth, I was wondering if you missed this post.... since you didn't reply to it. :smile

[Guest Guest]

Seth...after carefully reading what Dr. Ruckman wrote, I agree 100%. Of course the KJV 1611 AV is superior above all other Bibles. The author is the Holy Spirit, himself. Again...it is written by God himself.

candlelight

[Bakershalfdozen]

This is the problem. Most people have a hard time understanding that the Bible is not defined by the dictionary. God used the words He intended, not the words people want Him to use. The Bible defines itself, cross-references itself, and is its own authority on itself. The issue is that it's God's definition of "translation", not the dictionary's definition of "translation".

For someone whose sole authority is the King James Bible, the Bible's definition of a word is all that matters. Websters or the OED is not the authority on the Bible; The Bible is the authority on the Bible. When someone tries to explain away the translation of the Bible instead of relying on God's definition of that word, they set the dictionary as authoritative over the Bible.

Fine. Since Elizabethan English is the only pure language, the next time I hear of a missionary suffering for Christ, I'll know that he has been allowing something. Suffer in the N.T. means allow so that is all it means and all it can mean. Words never, ever change meaning over centuries and even if they do, we can only define a modern word by a 400-year old definiton. Gotcha.

[Bakershalfdozen]

Seth...after carefully reading what Dr. Ruckman wrote, I agree 100%. Of course the KJV 1611 AV is superior above all other Bibles. The author is the Holy Spirit, himself. Again...it is written by God himself.

candlelight

Why didn't the Holy Spirit author any other Bibles?