If we are going to preach it, then we must live it

[Calvary]

Apart from not giving any answer, prosper and provide are not the same thing.

I disagree. God has prospered you with all you have, not just "what's left over."

The Lord has indeed provided all that I need, what conveniences, comforts, extras I have are prosperity.

Again your fault is in avoiding a discussion about principles instead of the letter of the law which ministers death.



Malachi? The priests? Read it again my friend, "this whole NATION..."


Vacation? Ever read Deut. 14? It was commanded to take 10% and spend it on your family having a good time. I call that a vacation.

Anyways, if a man only has faith enough to tithe, then I say amen, start there. But if a new Christian came to me and asked how much should they begin giving I wouldn't suggest a fifth. What would you suggest? Give it all? Give all that you feel you ought to? Both poor suggestions to a new convert. Start at a tithe I would say, it is the only Biblical number ever given, then go from there.

God bless,

Calvary

[Jerry]

No axe to grind here' date=' Revelation.[/quote']

No, it is quite obvious you do have one.



Mitch and I have shown you passages where tithing was money - yet you refuse to accept that. It is like debating with a brick wall. Repeat the same mantra 50 times, then say you win - because no one can answer your endlessly repetitive posts.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

No, Jerry,

You have shown me passages that you said referred to tithes being money... but they were not.

Tithes were eaten... they were food.

[Calvary]

Having a saving account is being a hypocrite? Isn't one laying up in store by him as Paul instructed a savings account?

No, it was the good works that will go ahead of us towards our heavenly account. 1 Timothy 6. No savings account in 1 Timothy, perhaps you can find one elsewhere.

Once a guy sees red, blue won't do will it?

So, you were saying?

God bless,

Calvary

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Paul instructed the individuals in the Church to have a savings account when he said

let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him

Quite obvious that is he was telling them to save money for a later time.

A savings account.

[deputydog530]

Well, if you use only part of the verse, sure you can make it say that. :puzzled:

[Standing Firm In Christ]

1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

There, I used the whole verse. It still says to save money for a later offering.

[Guest Guest]

I just did a quick search on the words "tithe" and "tithes" in the New Testament, and here's what I found:

"tithe"
Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment

[Standing Firm In Christ]

KJB, don't you realize that when Paul said 'offerings' in his epistles he really meant tithes? ROFL.

At least that is what it seems some want us to believe.

[heartstrings]

Well,my "Giviing out of Necessity" thread got locked, even though I think the subject was a little different from this one.
The point was, You may tithe, give offerings and your car may tear up anyway, you may have a huge hospital bill. You may go even bankrupt and lose everything. To stand behind the pulpit and threaten people, that if they don't tithe, they will suffer some financial loss when "God gets his money" is just wrong. Notice that I already stated that I tithe and give offerings...so please don't say that I'm speaklign out AGAINST tithing.

First you claim you dont' do it..... (Jerry)

I have never done that. I know there are many bad preachers (in whatever camp) that have done so to bring in more money. Though it is Biblical to point out God's promises and consequences for not obeying. Yes, the Scriptures do teach that God won't bless when we withhold our tithes and offerings. I still believe those passages apply today - obviously we are never going to agree on that fact; however, that will always be the perspective I come from.

Malachi 3:7-11 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

Proverbs 3:9-10 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

The opposite of God not rebuking the devourer and blessing would be the devourer devouring and cursing. That could certainly apply to crops that don't produce as much, extra/unexpected bills devouring our finances or resources.

Different context - but here is one example of what happened to God's people when they put themselves and their needs or desires before God and His will:

Haggai 1:5-6 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways. Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.

Then Defend it

Are you arguing with God? I quote several passages from the Bible. You are telling us that if someone actually preaches those passages that they are doing wrong? Blame God if you don't like what He said and how He said it.

Then accuse me of being against tithing

Various times I have quoted 1 Corinthians 8 - which obviously refers to and applies OT tithing laws to the church as the principle for taking care of the men of God and their families - exactly what it went towards in the OT. 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 refers to bringing their tithes to the storehouse - the local church. Also, Hebrews 7 refers to tithing in the present tense (and it was written sometime around 60 AD), and does not speak against it. You may disagree with Christians tithing today - but it gets tiring to hear you and others state the NT does not teach tithing.

Where did say I disagreed with tithing? What is this debate tactic called??

Read it again, sir, I tithe and give offerings. Want me to say it again?
What I disagree with is telling people that God "will get his money one way or the other" using threat tactics to get money.
Sir, you can tithe all you want to and the car is still break down sooner or later and the doctor bills WILL come anyway. And just because someone has a serious financial loss, doesn't mean they weren't tithing.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

It is a scare tactic, heartstrings.

Many take the promises, warnings, and commands that were meant for Israel and put them in the Gentile camp. Most time is is because they fail to study the Word of God even though the are reading the Word of God.

The fact is, one can call 10% of their money a tithe, Scripturally, it is not a tithe.

God required tithe from the Israelites only had specific instructions that the Levites were not to take tithe from heathen nations.

[Calvary]

[quote="Standing Firm In Christ"]Paul instructed the individuals in the Church to have a savings account when he said

[quote] let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him
[/quote]

Quite obvious that is he was telling them to save money for a later time.

A savings account.[/quote]


Wow is that tortured. Please give us a break ok? A later date like in Sunday next???? Some "savings" account. I guess we can make the Bible say whatever we want it to.

God bless,

Calvary

[Standing Firm In Christ]

[quote="Calvary"][quote="Standing Firm In Christ"]Paul instructed the individuals in the Church to have a savings account when he said

[quote] let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him
[/quote]

Quite obvious that is he was telling them to save money for a later time.

A savings account.[/quote]


Wow is that tortured. Please give us a break ok? A later date like in Sunday next???? Some "savings" account. I guess we can make the Bible say whatever we want it to.

God bless,

Calvary[/quote]

Apparently you don't see Paul telling them to save for an offering he is comeing to pick up. Wow.

The Bible says what it says. They were to save money for an offering when Paul got there. That is a savings accout for a specific purpose.

Tell me, do you save any of your money through the week(s) after you receive your paycheck? Does any stay in your bank account? your wallet? a safe?

Don't judge someone as a hypocrite for saving if you are not spending ALL of your money as soon as you get it and not keeping one single cent back for emergencies or other possible upcoming events.

[Calvary]

Sloppy exegesis.

Please take a step back and stop trying to force the Bible into your pre packaged doctrine.


A savings account?? Bwah haha hahahhahahah........


God bless ya beloved.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

so they weren't commanded to save money?

Wow!

please step back and stop trying to fit the Bible into your doctrine.