Calvinism or Arminianism? How do you answer?

[Iconoclast]

4 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

No, sin did NOT take God "by surprise;" for the Lord our God is all knowing, possessing perfect before-knowledge of all things from eternity past before anything ever occurred.  However, the perfect before-knowledge of the Lord our God is not equivalent to the sovereign decree of the Lord our God.

If by "control over sin" you mean, does the Lord our God possess such sovereign control that He determines all circumstances so as to limit the number of choices that are possible to us in any given case, then my answer would be -- Yes.  If by "control over sin" you mean, does the Lord our God possess such sovereign control that He determines all consequences of the sinful choices that we might make, then again my answer would be -- Yes.  However, if by "control over sin" you mean, does the Lord our God possess such sovereign control that He determines that actual choices to sin that we make, then my answer would be an emphatic -- NO!!!  Yes, He controls/determines the circumstances around our sinful choices.  Yes, He controls/determines the consequences of our sinful choices.  No, He does not control/determine our sinful choices themselves.

Because, as I stated in answer to question #1, the Lord our God possessed perfect before-knowledge of humanity's sin before the foundation of the world.  Even so, because of His loving and gracious nature, the Lord our God also before the foundation of the world established a plan of salvation for sinners.

No, as per my answer for question #1.

I really could not answer this question until I know how you are defining the word "ordained" within the context of your question.  Do you mean by the word "ordained" within the context of your question that the Lord our God predetermined (not simply before-knew) every single event and decision that takes place, including every single decision and action of sin?

The Lord our God is NOT a victim of sin and rebellion.  Rather, His response/reaction to the existence of humanity's sin was to predetermine a plan for victory over sin and rebellion.  (Note: Implying that the reality of response/reaction requires the responder to be a victim is inaccurate; for a responder can in fact be a victor.)  The Lord our God is always, through His all-wise plan and almighty power, the Victor.  As such, He is certainly able to govern the wickedness of sinful angels and sinful mankind so as to bring glory unto Himself.  Indeed, He will bring glory unto Himself in relation to the wickedness of sinful angels by ultimately obtaining victory over them when He casts them into the lake of fire for eternity.  Indeed, He will bring glory unto Himself in relation to human believers in Christ by ultimately obtaining victory over their sinfulness when He establishes them in perfect Christ-likeness for eternity.  Indeed, He will bring glory unto Himself in relation to human unbelievers by ultimately obtaining victory over them when He casts them into the like of fire for eternity.  Yet although the Lord our God can and does govern the wickedness of sinful angels and sinful mankind so as to bring glory unto Himself, He most certainly does NOT determine their individual choices to sin against Him.  Those sinful choices are determined by them within the boundaries of the freedom of choice that He has granted to them as morally responsible beings.

The Lord God whom I worship is NOT the one who has preordained or caused sin.  Rather, He is the One who has established a way of victory over sin.

YOUR HERO BIG JIM HAS THREATENED TO REMOVE ME IF i SPEAK THE TRUTHS OF CALVINISM WHICH IS THE HISTORIC FAITH. SO I WILL NOT STOP SPEAKING THE TRUTH; SORRY YOU OPPOSE YOURSELF BY OPPOSING THE ACTUAL TEACHING OFjESUS.

Big Jim....accuser of the brethren.

If the title of this forum was IGNORANT ONLINE BAPTISTS I WOULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT TO EXPECT.

YOU AND YOUR SMUG SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME.

YOU CONDEMN EVERYONE BUT YOUR LITTLE 5 MEMBER POSSE OF APOSTATES.

SAYING MEN ELECT THEMSELVES, SAVE THEMSELVES , SPURGEON DAGG AND ALL CALVINISTS are heretics are over the top. YOU DID POST YOU JUST NEED YOUR BIBLE AND THE SPIRIT...Yeah, you are full of yourself.

I can here to help, but you BIG JIM ARE READY TO CENSOR ME IF i PRESENT THE HISTORIC FAITH, TELLING ME  NOT TO PRESENT HISTORIC TRUTH ,WHEN YOU AND EVERYONE WHO POSTS ON HERE ARE BLIND AS BATS.

I have dealt with online morons before on two other sites. You cannot answer the historic faith.

Supposed pastor scott opposes the words of Jesus. Tony cannot use a verse and yes Tony I remember you from other sites where you did the same empty accusations, but Cals were not silenced like Big JIM wants...

Big Jim, Big hypocrite.

Jim you are impressed with your title a ADMINISTRATOR,LOL YOU ARE SO Full of yourself, but not once could you give an answer. So you silence anyone who challenges your little posse.....you cannot answer so you censor.

It was you who have been hostile from your first post to me , as well as all your little posse, no wonder this forum has like 10-11 people. Closed minded bigots, attacking anyone who offers anything.

You mock the few quotes offered and yet you could not provide anything close to what was written.

Enjoy your little echo chamber.

You desire to Censor me, so soon I will start my own site, where small minded hypocrites like you cannot censor the historic faith, and I will comment on posts from this site and point out the Christ dishonoring heresies that get put out in public. 

BIG JIM GETS TO CENSOR TRUTH HERE,BUT THE TRUTH WILL WIN OUT. 

 

[Jerry]

Wow, you are full of yourself! With your rants posted in at least four different threads, it is just a matter of time before one of the Admins or Mods delete or ban your account. Enjoy your last few minutes of ranting and raving before that happens.

P.S. It just goes to show you how "loving" heretics truly are - once they depart from the Bible, all that matters is pushing their little heresies, even if it means becoming accusatory and railing towards others.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

James 3:13-18 -- "Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you?  Let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.  But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.  This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.  For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.  But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.  And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace."