Inerrancy of Scripture - Bible believer or bible agnostic?

[futurehope]

Why would we reason that God would have to have used the terms "in one volume" to believe that He meant that He would keep His word in tact and preserve it so that we would know that it was His entire word??

[tired]

I know me and Kevin don't agree on most things but on the Ruckman issue..... :thumb

[Guest Guest]

Thanks for clarifying' date=' but I would think it is totally different. Really, one is by death and the other by choice. Divorce is a condition brouth on and only allowed due to the hardening of the heart (as Christ explains in the NT). If a man hardens his heart against his wife enough to follow through in divorce, I would say he is guilty of sin. Look for example at Christ. We (the church) are His bride. But we often commit whoredoms. Christ does not "divorce" us but is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And I believe that this is the example he has commanded us to follow as men.[/quote']

I completely agree that divorce is terrible and God hates it: "What God hath joined together let no man put asunder." However, it still happens, like you said because of the hardness of the hearts of men (and women). So what then is a man supposed to do if he's been called to preach by God, and his wife gives him the ultimatum: God or her? Like I said earlier, one of my pastors had this happen to him, and again at least once by Dr. Ruckman. Yes it's a total shame that this happens, but what is a man supposed to do if his wife divorces him?

[tired]

Preach but not be a pastor. He could preach anywhere. In jails, truckstops, street, churches as an evangelist type, but being a pastor I think you should really be above reproach on the issues that Paul points out to Timothy. :hijack:

[Guest Guest]

Preach but not be a pastor. He could preach anywhere. In jails' date=' truckstops, street, churches as an evangelist type, but being a pastor I think you should really be above reproach on the issues that Paul points out to Timothy. :hijack:[/quote']

I don't see that in scripture at all, sorry. Yes, a pastor should be above reproach, blameless, etc., but there is nothing in the scriptures to say that a man who has been divorced is disqualified. In fact, I was 12 before I heard anyone say that a divorced man was disqualified; I was flabbergasted that someone would claim that from scripture! Come to find out, it tends to be the majority opinion of non-divorced IFBs.

[Guest Guest]

Just as I suspected...futurehope, you know about Dr. Ruckman, already.

I am not even going to get into this with you, Kevin.

[futurehope]

I am thinking that where you two are on this discussion is looking for the fine line between legalism and obeying God's commandments.

[Guest Guest]

Just as I suspected...futurehope, you know about Dr. Ruckman, already.

I am not even going to get into this with you, Kevin.

Like I said, he likes to make fun of it but he won't study it out himself. Just like 95% of the other Ruckman haters.

[futurehope]

Just as I suspected...futurehope, you know about Dr. Ruckman, already.

I am not even going to get into this with you, Kevin.

Honestly, I didn't. I just found the comment humourous. Probably poor judgement on my part to have posted that.

[Guest Guest]

I don't see that in scripture at all' date=' sorry. Yes, a pastor should be above reproach, blameless, etc., but there is nothing in the scriptures to say that a man who has been divorced is disqualified. In fact, I was 12 before I heard anyone say that a divorced man was disqualified; I was flabbergasted that someone would claim that from scripture! Come to find out, it tends to be the majority opinion of non-divorced IFBs.[/quote']


Thank you, KJB. :thumb Titus 1:6...If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. KJV.

Men interpret this as one wife in a whole lifetime. I have heard many preachers talk about men having a multitude of wives like Solomon---regarding this scripture. Do we even want to get into the MANY cultures where men have more than one wife (at the same time?)

[Guest Guest]

Thank you' date=' KJB. :thumb [b']Titus 1:6...If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. KJV.

Men interpret this as one wife in a whole lifetime. I have heard many preachers talk about men having a multitude of wives like Solomon---regarding this scripture. Do we even want to get into the MANY cultures where men have more than one wife (at the same time?)

Exactly. Paul is discussing Polygamy here, not divorce, since he covered divorce in 2 Corinthians, the passage I posted earlier.

[futurehope]

Like I said, he likes to make fun of it but he won't study it out himself. Just like 95% of the other Ruckman haters.

I have already admitted poor judgement for this "laughter" on such a serious subject. As far as the studying, I also admit to being new to "Ruckmanism" and am using this opportunity to hear arguments from both sides while interjecting when I feel the Word is being misinterpretted. Is this wrong? It certainly appears to me as though you are taking this personally from the standpoint of Ruckman and may be closing off to relevant discussion concerning the writings of Paul. We should not be looking to offend, but to learn and grow.

[tired]

Luke 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
Mark 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Mark 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
1 Tim. 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5

[Guest Guest]

I have already admitted poor judgement for this "laughter" on such a serious subject. As far as the studying' date=' I also admit to being new to "Ruckmanism" and am using this opportunity to hear arguments from both sides while interjecting when I feel the Word is being misinterpretted. Is this wrong? It certainly appears to me as though you are taking this personally from the standpoint of Ruckman and may be closing off to relevant discussion concerning the writings of Paul. We should not be looking to offend, but to learn and grow.[/quote']

I'm sorry, futurehope, I was talking about the nested quote from Kevin, not yours. We have a long history with Kevin, this being one of the more aggravating issues. Sorry about the misunderstanding...I should have clarified who I was talking about. :smile

[Guest Guest]

I completely agree that divorce is terrible and God hates it: "What God hath joined together let no man put asunder." However' date=' it still happens, like you said because of the hardness of the hearts of men (and women). So what then is a man supposed to do if he's been called to preach by God, and his wife gives him the ultimatum: God or her? Like I said earlier, one of my pastors had this happen to him, and again at least once by Dr. Ruckman. Yes it's a total shame that this happens, but what is a man supposed to do if his wife divorces him?[/quote']


Yes---my point exactly. :thumb I know many men that have had to step down because of this.

BTW, for those who don't know---I am divorced. I was married at age 25. We separated when our son was 2 1/2---he is now 17. We were married (on paper) for 5 years. Verbal, then---physical abuse was the problem. I wasn't saved at the time, and I firmly believe that had I NOT gotten divorce I would have ended up in Hell. I married my IFB husband at age 36. I am now 44. Before my retirement from the Cleveland School System I wanted to teach at a local IFB church school. I was told that I could NOT teach there, because I was divorced. My first IFB pastor was "fuming" on this one.