Comment on the Larkin Thread

[Invicta]

Critical Mass wrote

Francisco Ribera was an Augustinian amillennialist. His interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 was a futurist interpretation but he applied it to the church and not to Israel. He viewed half of the Great Tribulation already taking place at 70 AD with 3 1/2 years yet future but none of it had nothing to do with Israel but rather the Catholic Church turning from the Pope and going into apostasy.

Luis del Alcazar was a full blown Preterist who wrote the first major work on the preterist view. He believed everything in Revelation was already fulfilled except for the last three chapters of Revelation.

Neither man's eschatology was anything near what Larkin or modern day premil/pretrib/dispensationalists teach. They MAY have revived a futurist view of eschatology that was buried under years of Dark Age Roman Catholic heresies but it was incidental and accidental. 

 

 You are partly correct.  Modern pre tribulational teaching developed from Ribera's work.  It didn't exist before.  Not one of the "Primitive Writers" taught any such thing. However much you search, you will not find it.  It did not begin to develop until after 1830.  The "Primitive Writers"  all taught that the book of revelation was regarding the Church,  that the Temple was the Church, that the Jews represented Christians. The let and hindrance in 2 Thess 2 were the Emperor and the Empire. 

 

[wretched]

 You are partly correct.  Modern pre tribulational teaching developed from Ribera's work.  It didn't exist before.  Not one of the "Primitive Writers" taught any such thing. However much you search, you will not find it.  It did not begin to develop until after 1830.  The "Primitive Writers"  all taught that the book of revelation was regarding the Church,  that the Temple was the Church, that the Jews represented Christians. The let and hindrance in 2 Thess 2 were the Emperor and the Empire. 

 

Unfortunately good sir, the primitive writers you reference were all post RCC establishment and nothing could be trusted or even considered. Any sound primitive writers materials were rumored to be destroyed during the dark ages hence the lack thereof.

IOW: if you can find it and it is early "churchy" material it was sanctioned by the RCC. What say you to this?

[Invicta]

Unfortunately good sir, the primitive writers you reference were all post RCC establishment and nothing could be trusted or even considered. Any sound primitive writers materials were rumored to be destroyed during the dark ages hence the lack thereof.

IOW: if you can find it and it is early "churchy" material it was sanctioned by the RCC. What say you to this?

What say you to this?  Not so.  You have the ante Nicene writers in abundance.

[Genevanpreacher]

Unfortunately good sir, the primitive writers you reference were all post RCC establishment and nothing could be trusted or even considered. Any sound primitive writers materials were rumored to be destroyed during the dark ages hence the lack thereof.

IOW: if you can find it and it is early "churchy" material it was sanctioned by the RCC. What say you to this?

A disturbing part of your comment.

Rumored? Would you like to clarify?

[wretched]

What say you to this?  Not so.  You have the ante Nicene writers in abundance.

Well....hmmmm....well....the ante who?? (this is the unsure face thing and not the wacko face thing BTW)

A disturbing part of your comment.

Rumored? Would you like to clarify?

Well, the internet says this in several places...what you don't believe the internet???

[Invicta]

Well....hmmmm....well....the ante who?? (this is the unsure face thing and not the wacko face thing BTW)

Well, the internet says this in several places...what you don't believe the internet???

No, do you?  I have read what the early church wrote and I believe that was somewhat before the internet.  Although you can probably read their works on the internet.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Invicta

[wretched]

No, do you?  I have read what the early church believed.

My point being how can anyone seriously consider the writings of any man. I view modern internet accounts of early writings with the same weight as any source of early writings. IOW: I consider them not at all. 

So my question is why do you consider any early or later writings as significant or worthy of consideration? I view all writings apart from the KJB (and its early predecessors) as egregious (this includes this Larkin fella also). I don't trust anyone who authors a book and haven't for 20 years at least.

Your writers which I admit I am ignorant of carry the same zero weight with me as the Larkins, Ruckmans and any other so called "dispensationalist" writings.

Remember, all these writers are just dudes and most of them probably seeking filthy lucre for their work making merchandise of God. In Jesus' time it was the religious lost seeking trade for offerings: since then it has been the authors seeking loot for their unauthorized, unsanctioned books about God's Word.

Praying Hyde never wrote no books. Imagine what God would have done if all those dudes would have simply followed Jesus and prayed for the lost instead of wasting God's time with these books.

I am not trying to pick a fight but imagine what we could really do if we really followed Jesus. There is a lady on here named Rosie that I read has a ministry of praying...Oh my if I could just pull my head out of my 4th point and commit to that also. That is what the Master wants, not authors. Somebody, ANYBODY show me where God says to write books about Him??

[John81]

Consider the millions who have come to Christ and grown in Christ through the writings of men God moved to write. Scripture doesn't command men not write books and considering many faithful men of God have been moved to write and their writings have been used greatly by the Lord it's probably not good to condemn all books.

There are indeed many who write books for purposes other than God's glory; especially these days. I don't think anyone here condones such or considers their writings to be in the same category as those works written by mature men of God who followed God's leading in their life to write.

Anything written by man should be put to the same test as any sermon put forth by man. They must be examined in light of Scripture to see if those things be true or not. That is good for growth and edification.

[Genevanpreacher]

I understand, sort of, where Wretched is coming from, but I think it is the extreme way of looking at things.

Some people need the word 'explained' to them.

Ezra and Nehemiah talk about this - when the word of God was read - they expounded it.

Nehemiah 8 says -

5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people;) and when he opened it, all the people stood up:

6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.

7 Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.

8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

9 And Nehemiah, which is the Tirshatha, and Ezra the priest the scribe, and the Levites that taught the people, said unto all the people, This day is holy unto the LORD your God; mourn not, nor weep. For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the law.

10 Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; for the joy of the LORD is your strength.

11 So the Levites stilled all the people, saying, Hold your peace, for the day is holy; neither be ye grieved.

12 And all the people went their way to eat, and to drink, and to send portions, and to make great mirth, because they had understood the words that were declared unto them

 

Books, these days, help to do what verse 12 did back then - helps people to understand the words that are declared to them.

 

God is good!

Edited October 20, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[Alimantado]

My point being how can anyone seriously consider the writings of any man. I view modern internet accounts of early writings with the same weight as any source of early writings. IOW: I consider them not at all. 

So my question is why do you consider any early or later writings as significant or worthy of consideration? I view all writings apart from the KJB (and its early predecessors) as egregious (this includes this Larkin fella also). I don't trust anyone who authors a book and haven't for 20 years at least.

Your writers which I admit I am ignorant of carry the same zero weight with me as the Larkins, Ruckmans and any other so called "dispensationalist" writings.

Remember, all these writers are just dudes and most of them probably seeking filthy lucre for their work making merchandise of God. In Jesus' time it was the religious lost seeking trade for offerings: since then it has been the authors seeking loot for their unauthorized, unsanctioned books about God's Word.

Praying Hyde never wrote no books. Imagine what God would have done if all those dudes would have simply followed Jesus and prayed for the lost instead of wasting God's time with these books.

I am not trying to pick a fight but imagine what we could really do if we really followed Jesus. There is a lady on here named Rosie that I read has a ministry of praying...Oh my if I could just pull my head out of my 4th point and commit to that also. That is what the Master wants, not authors. Somebody, ANYBODY show me where God says to write books about Him??

If you don't think men should be reading the writings of other men then why do you write stuff on this forum? Over your 712 posts you've written thousands of words expressing your views on scripture and exhorting us to do stuff and not do stuff (like above). What's the difference between what you're doing and printing the same words in a book and publishing it?

[Invicta]

The early writers were nearer, some very near, the time the Word was written and would have known what Paul the other NT writers taught.  One in particular. Clement of Rome was thought highly of by Paul.

Php 4:3  And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

[wretched]

If you don't think men should be reading the writings of other men then why do you write stuff on this forum? Over your 712 posts you've written thousands of words expressing your views on scripture and exhorting us to do stuff and not do stuff (like above). What's the difference between what you're doing and printing the same words in a book and publishing it?

Well it is simply this young man, this is just talk and not authoritative, nor published for profit nor distributed for fame and recognition.

Get it yet?

Edited October 20, 2015 by wretched

[Alimantado]

Well it is simply this young man, this is just talk and not authoritative, nor published for profit nor distributed for fame and recognition.

Get it yet?

No valid comparison to get, since you didn't cite motive as the primary reason for rejecting the writings. While it's true that you made a broad-brush accusation that Larkin and other authors were motivated by fame and fortune, the reason you gave for rejecting "all writings apart from the KJB" was that authors were "just dudes".

So if universally these writings are going to be wrong because they're authored by people, why not the same for your own writings? After all, if you post regularly on an internet forum for three or four years you can probably get your thoughts out to as many people as minor devotional works like Horatius Bonar's 'Follow the Lamb', which he wrote to help new Christians during a local revival, and minor systematic works like Larkin's.

[wretched]

No valid comparison to get, since you didn't cite motive as the primary reason for rejecting the writings. While it's true that you made a broad-brush accusation that Larkin and other authors were motivated by fame and fortune, the reason you gave for rejecting "all writings apart from the KJB" was that authors were "just dudes".

So if universally these writings are going to be wrong because they're authored by people, why not the same for your own writings? After all, if you post regularly on an internet forum for three or four years you can probably get your thoughts out to as many people as minor devotional works like Horatius Bonar's 'Follow the Lamb', which he wrote to help new Christians during a local revival, and minor systematic works like Larkin's.

Your reasoning is hard to follow, this forum is simply a conversation in text but if you can't see the difference, no problem.

One thing is certain of every single book I have read in the distant past, none were accurate or held to Scripture completely or even nearly. The thoughts portrayed by many is "well just sort through the bad and accept only the Scriptural good" makes no sense at all, why bother reading some dude's book. God didn't tell you to read some dudes book; nor did He tell anyone to write a book. We have what God wants us to read, study and know. Not by bread only but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (The key word is God here; not Dr. Greedy's handbook to the Bible).

Every single false religion, false doctrine and false teaching today originated and is propagated by some muttenhead making merchandise of God. 

I know this rubs allot kittens the wrong way; face the cats in the other direction and it won't bug them so much. 

[Invicta]

Your reasoning is hard to follow, this forum is simply a conversation in text but if you can't see the difference, no problem.

One thing is certain of every single book I have read in the distant past, none were accurate or held to Scripture completely or even nearly. The thoughts portrayed by many is "well just sort through the bad and accept only the Scriptural good" makes no sense at all, why bother reading some dude's book. God didn't tell you to read some dudes book; nor did He tell anyone to write a book. We have what God wants us to read, study and know. Not by bread only but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (The key word is God here; not Dr. Greedy's handbook to the Bible).

Every single false religion, false doctrine and false teaching today originated and is propagated by some muttenhead making merchandise of God. 

I know this rubs allot kittens the wrong way; face the cats in the other direction and it won't bug them so much. 

What you mean is they don't agree with you.  Have you thought that YOU may be wrong? I once disagreed with a pastor, not a futurist, and he said "I am not wrong."  I answered "We can't all be right, but we can all be wrong." remember that.  even you can be wrong as well as me.