Atheists and delusion

[Alimantado]

Certainly nothing surprising about the stuff proposed in that article. Even the police have done worse: in UK the MET placed undercover officers with environmental campaign groups and these guys stayed with those groups for years, not just observing but, according to the latest allegations, influencing and directing the groups' activities. It's now alleged that the famous anti-McDonalds leaflet that resulted in a huge court case against campaigners in the 1990s was actually written by an undercover officer. Worst of all is that to better infiltrate the groups, officers started intimate relationships with female campaigners, some that lasted years, and they even fathered children by them. One apparently was dividing time up between his real wife and kids (who didn't know about his state-sanctioned adultery) and his undercover partner and children. Then when their bosses at the MET gave the order, these officers abandoned their activist partners and children, fobbing them off with cover stories about them having to flee the country. One woman spent years trying to contact her partner in Spain, occasionally receiving postmarked letters from him. In fact, her partner was just a few miles away behind a desk at the MET, having resumed his normal life (and now with an MBE from the Queen!).

[DennisD]

So your Answer to my question One question for you, can you post us some video clips of steel frame buildings collapsing because of fire so we can see how they fell? No.

You are obviously a strong believer in all that sort of stuff you are repopulating, I'm sure you would be able to get onto the payroll of some branch of government I won't judge your motives.

haha, I am not repopulating anything.  You can continue to believe the stuff written by communists and anarchists if you like.  I choose to believe face value until I see proof otherwise.  You've shown no proof of your stance.

Let me be clear one more time...it hasn't nothing to do with my strong held beliefs in this.  YOU HAVE NEVER PROVIDED ANYTHING CONCRETE TO PROVE YOUR STANCE!!  You are the one that has this strong held belief and won't listen to reason.  I have researched both sides and HAVE FOUND NOTHING to make me sway to conspiracy theories.

Why do you continue to think I am some robot that spews nonsense?  You are the one that won't even objectively look at the other side.

I am shocked at the amount of people on this board that seemingly think conspiracy theories (Theory is the keyword here) are FACT.  Theories are NOT fact, they are theories.

Edited June 27, 2015 by DennisD

[DennisD]

 

But Hell, I never Joined this forum to study Antichrist and its tactics.

 

 

 

Well, it sure seems you care more about these conspiracy theories than anything else.  And, I would argue that you are not studying anything...you just post random stuff that you think is true with absoluely no proof.

I've given you my opinion and told you that Christ is eternally more important than my nation.  I don't CARE about conspiracy theories and I don't give them any merit.  So what?  How does that affect you in any way?  Go and believe your conspiracy theories if you want.  Or, provide proof that they are true.

Edited June 27, 2015 by DennisD

[Potatochip]

Well some people think the government are the oppressors.   When in fact they are there for your good.  What people are teaching today about government in contrast with what the Bible says to think about government in the New Testament.  Is false doctrine.  Gods word is eternal.   

[DennisD]

Well, not sure I'd would agree with that completely.  If the government performs the services they are created to perform...then that is one thing.  When they start to delve into the personal life and religious freedom of their citizens...they are being oppressive.  God has certain "responsibilities" for institutions (State, Church and Family).  Once, those insititutions start "getting out of their lane"...that's a problem.

[John81]

Indeed, the purpose of government is supposed to be keeping order, preventing chaos, establishing and upholding just laws, punishing lawbreakers, etc.

However, we know that's not how any government actually operates and certainly not in anything akin to a biblical manner. It's impossible to have a truly just and right government if those running the government are not followers of Christ following His guidance.

We also read in Scripture that God uses bad governments and leaders for His purposes too. Recall how the prophet was dumbfounded that God was going to allow a nation more wicked than themselves to conquer them because of their turning from God.

When Paul wrote those words telling us to obey our leaders, to give them respect and honour, to pray for them, he was living under very wicked Roman leadership.

Notice also nowhere in the NT do we read of God advocating Christians rebelling against bad, even wicked government/leaders. We are called to live at peace with them, obeying them unless they order us to directly go against God, and to be willing to suffer the consequences of obeying God rather than men, rejoicing, not complaining or fighting.

The Bible doesn't teach us that all governments/leaders are good. Even Scripture examples bad and wicked government/leaders.

There is nothing unscriptural about recognizing wickedness in a government/leader.

[Potatochip]

Thats the problem some people have.  I'm not Mr perfect really I am not its a struggle if you will wrestling.  lol.  God's Word is very clear.  Some want to "rework" the Bible to fit modern day applications. Well ok.   Sodomites and harlot churches reworked Gods word to fit what they want.  Roman Catholics have reworked the Bible to to fit works salvation and Idolatry (we are only praying over and above the representation of the statue).  Also we must change the government.  Because we don't like what God has instituted and everyone  must serve the Pope.  Even heads of state. Government is a separate dispensation in the Bible.  They exist to keep order.  So that we can lead peaceful, honest lives.  It is for our good.  So we can raise Christian children.  Furthermore so we can preach the Gospel.  The good news. False doctrine says this is 2015 things have changed (that's the crux of it).  Gods word does not apply to this situation.  Gods word is eternal.  However not in this case.  False teaching.  Church's now in many cases are a political unit.  Not doing what was intended.  

One day many will discover we are a Holy Nation a people that are no people. Entirely separate from the world.  Can't have one foot in and one foot out (that's the other crux of it).

Edited June 27, 2015 by Potatochip

[DennisD]

Indeed, the purpose of government is supposed to be keeping order, preventing chaos, establishing and upholding just laws, punishing lawbreakers, etc.

However, we know that's not how any government actually operates and certainly not in anything akin to a biblical manner. It's impossible to have a truly just and right government if those running the government are not followers of Christ following His guidance.

We also read in Scripture that God uses bad governments and leaders for His purposes too. Recall how the prophet was dumbfounded that God was going to allow a nation more wicked than themselves to conquer them because of their turning from God.

When Paul wrote those words telling us to obey our leaders, to give them respect and honour, to pray for them, he was living under very wicked Roman leadership.

Notice also nowhere in the NT do we read of God advocating Christians rebelling against bad, even wicked government/leaders. We are called to live at peace with them, obeying them unless they order us to directly go against God, and to be willing to suffer the consequences of obeying God rather than men, rejoicing, not complaining or fighting.

The Bible doesn't teach us that all governments/leaders are good. Even Scripture examples bad and wicked government/leaders.

There is nothing unscriptural about recognizing wickedness in a government/leader.

I don't disagree with anything you've said.  I think it's just as bad to believe nonsense with no proof (consipiracy theories) as it is to blindly follow government and believe they have your best interests at heart.  I don't understand either side with regards to that issue.

Conjecture and opinion are the only thing that has been presented here as "proof" of conspiracy theories.

[Potatochip]

I don't disagree with anything you've said.  I think it's just as bad to believe nonsense with no proof (consipiracy theories) as it is to blindly follow government and believe they have your best interests at heart.  I don't understand either side with regards to that issue.

Conjecture and opinion are the only thing that has been presented here as "proof" of conspiracy theories.

I agree its traveling through and trying to discover whats going on in the Mystery of Iniquity.  Sin.  Its like trying how to figure out how how they manipulate people with television. When what it is in reality is a lot of sin.  Many people love TV.  TV is filled with sin.  We are to stay away from sin.  If people get involved with sin they are traveling through the mystery of iniquity and sin.  Which can lead to an unsound mind.  Which can lead to a sound beating if you are a Christian participating in sin.  So I stay away from sin  God is the author and finisher of my faith.  In God is life.  Sin is death.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Potatochip

[John81]

I don't disagree with anything you've said.  I think it's just as bad to believe nonsense with no proof (consipiracy theories) as it is to blindly follow government and believe they have your best interests at heart.  I don't understand either side with regards to that issue.

Conjecture and opinion are the only thing that has been presented here as "proof" of conspiracy theories.

I agree. There is a big difference between pointing out inconsistencies, facts now hidden, oddities and such and asking "why", "what does this mean", "could this mean_____?" and those who simply make stuff up, those who create an elaborate fiction and try to force it into reality.

The moon landings is a good example of this. There is an abundance of evidence the moon landings actually happened. Even so, there are some who insist upon building up fictional accounts of the moon landings being faked. Often they use doctored or phoney photos, or even misleading photos in order to try and bolster their case. Somehow many believe this regardless of the abundance of evidence to the contrary.

For many who believe in the wacky conspiracy theories it's a matter of not actually looking into the matter for themselves. They hear a conspiracy theory and take it as true, never checking into the facts, and then pass it along as truth so others believe it too.

[Potatochip]

Which was my first premise sin is delusional and leads to delusion.  The truth of Gods word is clear.  It's life and peace.  Sin is destruction.  It destroyed Adam and Eves life.  Thats a lot of destruction to mankind.  God is saying obey that IS the good life.  We have salvation of course.  However we are going through this present darkness.  I hate the world.  If sin had not entered the world.  I more than likely would have liked it.  Take heart Jesus has overcome the world.  He gives us peace not like the world however.  Because sin is in the world.  Just a word again on television.  Just a peek is no good.  Talk about viral. Its probably going to get really bad.  I'd chuck it out the window if I had kids.  Truth of it is brothers.  These young people I am going to try to get where they are everywhere I can.  Whats going on is bad stuff young people don't know.  Many times they just go with the culture.  You see a young person please give them a tract or tell them about Salvation.  Anyone under 7 or near if I can figure it out I ask the parent.  

Edited June 27, 2015 by Potatochip

[Old-Pilgrim]

Well, not sure I'd would agree with that completely.  If the government performs the services they are created to perform...then that is one thing.  When they start to delve into the personal life and religious freedom of their citizens...they are being oppressive.  God has certain "responsibilities" for institutions (State, Church and Family).  Once, those insititutions start "getting out of their lane"...that's a problem.

lol.

[Old-Pilgrim]

This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

 

I mean that verse gets me lol.   I watch all this going on.  Many are going to go at it tooth and nail over the next Presidential election lol.  I really like you folks.  If you followed a strict interpretation of the Bible.  You would pay attention to the Bible and forget all the other nonsense and really marvel at some of the stuff that's going on.  

have you ever voted in a political election?

Edited June 27, 2015 by Old-Pilgrim

[Old-Pilgrim]

I agree. There is a big difference between pointing out inconsistencies, facts now hidden, oddities and such and asking "why", "what does this mean", "could this mean_____?" and those who simply make stuff up, those who create an elaborate fiction and try to force it into reality.

The moon landings is a good example of this. There is an abundance of evidence the moon landings actually happened. Even so, there are some who insist upon building up fictional accounts of the moon landings being faked. Often they use doctored or phoney photos, or even misleading photos in order to try and bolster their case. Somehow many believe this regardless of the abundance of evidence to the contrary.

For many who believe in the wacky conspiracy theories it's a matter of not actually looking into the matter for themselves. They hear a conspiracy theory and take it as true, never checking into the facts, and then pass it along as truth so others believe it too.

Hello John, serious question here, what sort of evidence are you talking about? I would have thought only a handful of folks would know for sure if they did or if they didn't.

[Invicta]

I agree. There is a big difference between pointing out inconsistencies, facts now hidden, oddities and such and asking "why", "what does this mean", "could this mean_____?" and those who simply make stuff up, those who create an elaborate fiction and try to force it into reality.

The moon landings is a good example of this. There is an abundance of evidence the moon landings actually happened. Even so, there are some who insist upon building up fictional accounts of the moon landings being faked. Often they use doctored or phoney photos, or even misleading photos in order to try and bolster their case. Somehow many believe this regardless of the abundance of evidence to the contrary.

For many who believe in the wacky conspiracy theories it's a matter of not actually looking into the matter for themselves. They hear a conspiracy theory and take it as true, never checking into the facts, and then pass it along as truth so others believe it too.

OK, but in one of the videos, the camera panned up fp;;owing the moon lander as it took off.  Who panned the camera and who brought the film back?