Homosexuals And Church Ministry

[John81]

I recently read yet another article dealing with the issue of "gay Christians" (more about that term later) and ministry or service within a church or Christian organization.

 

If a church is truly following Christ then I don't really understand why there is even a question about this. If the "gay Christian" in question is a practicing homosexual then that means they are living in open sin, rebellion against God, and should not be qualified to serve or be a part of the ministry team.

 

The main article I read dealt with "gay Christians' and children's ministry. Again, if the "gay Christian" is an openly practicing homosexual that alone should be more than enough reason to disqualify them from working in children's ministry.

 

So, perhaps now we should address the term, and whole idea of "gay Christian". If by "gay Christian" it means that the person is claiming to be a born again Christian AND a practicing homosexual, and they believe this is okay, that's a major prOBlem. It's no more okay for a Christian to be living as an open homosexual than it is for one to be openly living as an adulterer.

 

A "gay Christian who is living as a homosexual is in sin. Like any other Christian living in sin they need to repent and forsake that sin.

 

Myself, I reject the term "gay Christian" because I believe what the Bible says about homosexuality and sin. Are we going to start calling Christians who live as adulterers "adulterer Christian"? What about "thief Christian" or "blasphemer Christian" or "wife beater Christian"?

 

Christians should be defined by their changed lives, being a new creature in Christ, conforming to Christ and growing in holiness; not by a pet sin, preferred sin, or "acceptable" sin.

 

Now, if a homosexual is born again in Christ, they repent of their sin (including homosexuality) and are become new creatures in Christ, and even if they still suffer the temptation to homosexual sin but don't give in to the temptation, they are a Christian, not a "gay Christian". "Gay" (homosexual) is what they were before Christ, but that's not who they are now. Neither they or others should want such to be labeled as a "gay Christian".

 

So many churches have gone wrong in this area already and many others are walking on thin ice. When we declare evil good (proclaiming homosexuality is either not a sin or is some kind of tiny sin that is acceptable and can be overlooked) we have already separated ourselves from God.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

They want the "gay" term in the same manner as a drunk wants the term "alcoholic". To call one an "alcoholic" or worse yet "recovering alcoholic" denotes something outside of their open choice ("I can't help it, I have a disease". How many times have my wife and I heard that rot?).

 

Both are listed in I Cor 6 as "such WERE some of you BUT ...." (emphasis mine).

 

I've preached on the street in front of an "adult bookstore" (gag on that phrase along with "adult language", beverage,etc") with a former homosexual who was redeemed by the blood of Christ. 

[John81]

Good comparison regarding the drunkenness/alcoholic connection. It's a shame much of Christianity has bought into the secular view of drunkenness being something one can never truly be free from and it's all up to the person to build himself up to not drink, or have plenty of friends around to help him not drink, etc. (not that those things can't be of help, but Christ and His sufficiency should be the key, main focus).

 

There is also a prOBlem among many Christians who virtually equate temptation with sin. We will all face temptation during this life. If we are tempted to lie about something, but we don't lie, then we are not a liar; we are not a "liar Christian", we are not a "recovering liar". The same applies to drunkenness and homosexuality. It's not a sin to be tempted and to be tempted in any area doesn't make us a party to sin or identify us. Our identity is in Christ.

 

It's a real shame all the excuses in Christianity today for homosexuality, adultery, drunkenness, divorce, child spoiling, entertainment indulgence, etc.

 

The Lord is as capable of delivering a person from the sin of homosexuality as He is capable of delivering any of us from any other sin.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

They want the "gay" term in the same manner as a drunk wants the term "alcoholic". To call one an "alcoholic" or worse yet "recovering alcoholic" denotes something outside of their open choice ("I can't help it, I have a disease". How many times have my wife and I heard that rot?).
 
Both are listed in I Cor 6 as "such WERE some of you BUT ...." (emphasis mine).
 
I've preached on the street in front of an "adult bookstore" (gag on that phrase along with "adult language", beverage,etc") with a former homosexual who was redeemed by the blood of Christ.

seeing your emphasis, made me think of a question: what if someone were to type up every verse from the Old and New Testaments, but add emphis to key words such as you did in the verse above? Not changing any words to other words, but just emphasizing certain key words? Maybe with the title, "King James Emphasized". Would you buy such a Bible?

[John81]

On the Bible question, I would say no. At appropriate times certain words or verses need to be emphasized but that can only be rightly done at the moment.

 

One couldn't rightly determine which words or portions of Scripture to emphasize and which not to so whatever combination one came up with would only be truly beneficial for a certain people at certain times, but not for all people at all times (as the Word is as given) and could be misleading to some as the emphasis given might not be what they are needing and what they need to "hear" most directly was not emphasized.

 

So, no to a "King James Emphasized" Bible, but I have no prOBlem with someone emphasizing a point from Scripture (whether in writing, talking, preaching or teaching) in order to clearly get a specific point across.

[John81]

In another article they say there is a growing trend for "gay Christians" to claim it's okay to be "gay" and Christian so long as they are celibate. First of all, where is that in Scripture? Secondly, are we to take their word they are still sinners (if one is calling themselves a homosexual, then they are in sin) but not practicing the sin? And, just what does that mean anyway???

 

From other articles I've read some "gay Christians" put forth the idea that they can be "gay" and live a homosexual life while still being celibate. While they didn't go into detail (thankfully!) it seems by this they mean they can still be "in love" with another of the same sex, live with them, perhaps even "marry" them, and do things lovers do except they don't go "all the way" and they call this celibacy.

 

Well, that's not a true definition of celibacy to begin with. Engaging in "partial sin" is still sin. Trying to say celibacy makes homosexuality not a sin isn't biblical at all.

 

Why are Christians and churches even wrestling with these things that the Bible is so clear on?

 

Some churches have turned so far from Scripture so as to allow "celibate gays" in the ministry! Some have done even worse.

[No Nicolaitans]

Why are Christians and churches even wrestling with these things that the Bible is so clear on?

 

They want the praise of men.

They want to be viewed as tolerant.

They want the world to like them.

They want to fit in with the world.

They want...

 

That last answer is the key...it's what "they want" rather than what God wants.

[John81]

Yes, it really does come down to selfishness doesn't it?

 

So many today are so self-centered they want everyone to like them, they want to be part of the "in" crowd, they want others to cheer for them and applaud them. Today, especially in America, the quickest way to achieve what they want is to take a PC stance.

 

Those who actually hold to Scripture are considered mean, haters, evil, fundamentalists (they mean that in a very bad way, even associating such with radical Islamists).

 

While I can understand secular Christians going this way, it's more difficult to understand those who are (as far as we can tell) actually born again Christians who fall into this. Typically they are duped by wrong preaching on "God is love" which is so often presented as God says, "I'm okay, you're okay so can't we all just get along?" This usually accompanies wrong preaching on Jesus being a "friend of sinners" and One who hung out with sinners without judging them.

 

Thinking about this I would guess many of these fall for such because they are lazy and/or content to be a babe in Christ, never growing, never maturing. It prOBably shouldn't but I'm still amazed at how few Christians actually read the Bible. It astonishes me to speak with someone who has been a Christian for years, even decades, and they know so little about what the Bible actually says.

[paid4]

These people worship the god of self.

Ever noticed how they most times are attracted to others that look like themselves.

 

Nevertheless, we know no one is born that way. Common sense with a little science mixed in helps us to know this. If it's genetic then it cannot be passed on because homosexuals cannot reproduce.

 

We were born the sex that we are, the color that we are, and with the parents we have.... BUT we were not born with a mate therefore it is a choice that we make.

 

I like Leviticus 18:22  and  Leviticus 20:13 for this as well as Romans 1:26-32. Actually all of Leviticus chapter 18 is really good preaching for today's society but then again what part of the Bible isn't.

 

Bottom line is YOU ARE NOT SAVED IF YOU CONTINUE TO PRACTICE HOMOSEXUALITY IN ANY FORM!   Mark 2:22

[AVBibleBeliever]

the more the  false doctrines of the church going through the wrath known as the great tribulation and others false teaching or assumption a Bible truth, the more you will see ungodly men leading in the organizational churches.  Not that they are of the body of Christ.

 

1Cor 5:5-8 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.   Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?   ¶ Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:  Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

 

Gal 5:8, 9 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.   A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

 

a little leaven in these churches, IBF's included, the whole lump is affected and leaven will prevail.  These false teaching have been on going for a little more than 100 years since men started rejecting the pure word of God found in the Authorized Version.

[Anon]

Our church constitution clearly states our beliefs on marriage and fornication....we actually copied the CLA section to be sure we are legally safe from gay lawsuits.

The scary thing is raising kids in a day when gayness is being promoted and touted as normal. And now, states are beginning to outlaw the idea of psychologists counseling someone out of being gay.

I dread to think how it will be when MY kids have kids. :-(

[Guest]

Most here know my stand on homosexual practice. However, I'm 'evolving' it is just another sin which comes from the lust of the flesh. I certainly wouldn't waste my time legislating this sin into law anymore than the rest.

[paid4]

Our church constitution clearly states our beliefs on marriage and fornication....we actually copied the CLA section to be sure we are legally safe from gay lawsuits.

The scary thing is raising kids in a day when gayness is being promoted and touted as normal. And now, states are beginning to outlaw the idea of psychologists counseling someone out of being gay.

I dread to think how it will be when MY kids have kids. :-(

 

 

It seems like to the youth of the day that it's a cool thing to do. I remember a few years back a certain "star" carried a little dog around with her and all of a sudden everyone had small dogs with them everywhere they went. It seems to me like this whole gay thing is viewed by our youth as fad or fashion. The plea from the youth of today for attention is sad. Sad from the point that we don't fill that spiritual void before the world does.  Luke 10:2

[John81]

In public schools across the land children are taught they might be homosexual or bisexual and told how important it is that they "experiment" so they can learn their "true sexual identity". In many schools this "education" begins pretty young and then it continues each year from there. Then if they go to college they will hear it even more.

 

All the while the media, from news to entertainment, says the same thing over and over again.

 

I read that on Facebook recently many "brave and courageous" people have been posting their support of open homosexuality; often with a picture featuring two "gay" men in an embrace.

 

That's not brave or courageous in todays warped society, that's pandering to the PC crowd! True bravery and courage would be folks posting their opposition to such  because they would find themselves on the receiving end of perverse and vile attacks.

[Alimantado]

Nevertheless, we know no one is born that way. Common sense with a little science mixed in helps us to know this. If it's genetic then it cannot be passed on because homosexuals cannot reproduce.

 

We were born the sex that we are, the color that we are, and with the parents we have.... BUT we were not born with a mate therefore it is a choice that we make.

 

Honestly, as far as I can tell I've never 'chosen' to be sexually attracted to women. It just happened. It wasn't something I made a conscious decision to start feeling when I got to a certain age, and I don't think I've ever had the power to 'choose' to suddenly switch and start being attracted to the same sex. That's my experience anyway.