Eternal Security Taught In Hebrews 6

[AVBibleBeliever]

Then who are the 'saints' spoken of in Rev 13, over whom the dragon will be given to make war and overcome? And with what are the 144,000 sealed? If I am correct, it is the Spirit that seals believers. And what is the ripe harvest of the earth that Jesus reaps in Rev 14:14-17, just prior to the wrath of God?

 

By the way, speaking as on obese Christian, I hate McDonalds and regularly pass it up. Now, Taco Bell.....?

the Jews and those who accept who believe in during the time of Jacob's trouble, the day of the Lord, that great day, the day of darkenss etc.....

 

the 144,000 are a specific group of male vergin Jews sealed with the fathers name.

 

The ripe harvest are unbelieving mankind.  this is not a harvest of saved but of unsaved

[candlelight]

Candle, I will admit that believing as I do regarding Heb 6:4-8 and Heb 10:26, and other verses, I have often doubted my standing in Christ. It has at times hindered my spiritual progress and caused me to focus inward only to find nothing good there. But I cannot see how those verses support eternal security. On the contrary, I see them as severe warnings against willful sin and falling away. If I'm going to heaven no matter what I do, why not "break out the booze and have a ball" to quote a song from so many years ago. Nevertheless I appreciate what you have shared above.
It's ironic that the IFB holds to eternal security but preaches so hard against sinning while churches that hold to losing salvation are not so militant against sin.

 

If you are doubting your standing in Christ, then either you need what is called "Assurance of Salvation"... meaning you need to go to the Lord and ask Him if you are saved, or you need to be saved.  Look back at the post from No Nicolaitans.  I believe he gave the best answer for these scriptures.  

Ukelelemike gave a good answer for why the IFB church preach hard against sinning.

[AVBibleBeliever]

What's wrong with Acts 2:38?

Peter's words prior to Acts 2:38 only tell of his his resurrection was fulfilled prophecy as proof that he is Israel's true king of the line of David for Israel, there is no mention of his death being for the forgiveness of individual persons sin as a substitutionary death for Gentiles.  that Gospel is not revealed until Paul was saved Ga 1:16-20 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:  Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.   Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.   But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.   Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

 

 

Ok having said what I have in three posts.  I am not going to argue with those of you who do not share our economic view (dispensational view) of Scripture.  we are not going to try and convince you of how we have come to rightly divide the word of truth.  that is something between you and God as our views if for us between God and us.  So let's all be charitable on this view many an IFB believe in dispensational right divisions as we.

[John81]

Read 1 John 5:13

 

Then read and consider all of First John

 

God isn't the author of confusion, which is what occurs when one doesn't know the status of their soul or if they might be saved one minute and lost again the next. The Word makes it clear that we can know we are saved and that we are saved eternally.

[AVBibleBeliever]

the One verse we can rest assured of in any economy (dispensation) is that Jesus Christ is the Author of Eternal Salvation.

 

 Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 

[John81]

There is one Gospel, one means of salvation, one Saviour for all time.

[AVBibleBeliever]

ha ha ha! Yeah. You have obese Christians who can't drive past a McDonald's without succumbing to temptation yet you think they'll stand against the Antichrist when he says, "No food for you or you're family unless you take the mark."?

 

The church will be GONE during the Tribulation. There is no more abiding presence of the Comforter. If there is then it would be the church.

to force the body of Christ to suffer the wrath of God, the great Tribulation, the day of great wrath, the day of the Lord, and Jacob's trouble is to deny that the body of Christ is saved from the wrath.

 

Roms 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

these verses speak of both the tribulation and the great white throne judgement of which we are not part of (the latter wrath is the being cast into the lake of fire forever and ever).

 

 

[candlelight]

to force the body of Christ to suffer the wrath of God, the great Tribulation, the day of great wrath, the day of the Lord, and Jacob's trouble is to deny that the body of Christ is saved from the wrath.

 

Roms 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

these verses speak of both the tribulation and the great white throne judgement of which we are not part of (the latter wrath is the being cast into the lake of fire forever and ever).

 

Song and AVBB, there is another thread on oB that is talking about the Rapture.

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[AVBibleBeliever]

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There is one Gospel, one means of salvation, one Saviour for all time

you couldn't find the term "one gospel" one time in the scriptures.

 

We are talking on how God treated Israel when he ministered to how he deals with all men today after his ascension and how he will deal with Israel and the world after the catching up of the body of Christ into the clouds evermore to be with him.

 

Mt 4:23 ¶ And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.  This is Jesus preaching a pre-cross gospel of the Kingdom, which was at hand at that time if Israel would have accepted their Messiah king.  NO death, burial, and resurrection here for the forgiveness of sins, and the requirement was to believe the word that both John the baptist, Jesus and the 12 proclaimed, be baptized, do good works of the law, and at the time of the establishment of the kingdom they would receive the grace of God and enter into the kingdom.

 

then there was Paul's Gospel which in essence is

Eph 2:8, 9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  Not of works, lest any man should boast  Only faith is needed to receive the grace of God, there is No baptism is needed, no good works to perform to receive forgiveness of sins you are fully forgiven by the grace of God the moment you believe.

 

The there is the angelic Gospel and this gospel is preached to all mankind at the end of the great tribulation

Rev 14:6, 7 ¶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,  Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.  here those who believe or have faith on this angels gospel message they must Fear God, give him glory and worship him at that moment.  If they do, they will enter into the kingdom age, they then must come to Jerusalem as required of the nations as found in Zac 14 and keep the feasts, give him oblation and do so for their lives until they die, and like ALL those in the kingdom age they must come to Christ on the throne in this manner found in Zac 14, and when the 1,000 years are ended that the wicked destroyed the great white throne is set up those who worshiped him in the kingdom have their names in the lamb's book of life will enter the kingdom and eat of the tree of life and drink of the waters of life that flow from the Throne.

 

Having said that those of us who believe that God deals with Israel and mankind differently at different times (economies/dispensations) this is what we hold to.  Again we cannot convince you of these truths but if Martin Luther were here today he would have to give us his hassock as he promised because we reconciled the book of Ephesians and the book of Hebrews of which he could never reconcile because of their apparent differences of salvation.  Ephesians is to the body of Christ and Hebrews to Israel in the tribulation (the body of Christ having been removed).

[AVBibleBeliever]

Song and AVBB, there is another thread on oB that is talking about the Rapture.

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Part of the Eternal salvation is the fact that we will not suffer the wrath of the great tribulation, jacob's trouble etc.. that is why is it mentioned it is part of the doctrines of salvation

[candlelight]

Part of the Eternal salvation is the fact that we will not suffer the wrath of the great tribulation, jacob's trouble etc.. that is why is it mentioned it is part of the doctrines of salvation

 

Would you please join me in that conversation, AVBB?  I saw those scriptures above, and I do believe they are helpful in understanding the Rapture.

[John81]

You can't find the term trinity or rapture in Scripture either so does that mean they aren't in Scripture.

 

There is one means of salvation, no one is saved by any other means.

[candlelight]

You can't find the term trinity or rapture in Scripture either so does that mean they aren't in Scripture.

 

There is one means of salvation, no one is saved by any other means.

 

While I agree with you on "one means of salvation" John, you don't believe in the Rapture... so why make a comment on it?

[AVBibleBeliever]

 Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.  this verse is true for all three Gospels shown above by the way.
 

 

Now a few things you have to keep in mind,  Peter is in the temple speaking to only Jews.  when he makes this statement the economy of the Kingdom is at hand is still in effect until they reject the Holy Ghost in Acts 7 at the stoning of Stephen.  Peter's gospel is the same one Christ sent them to preach known by Paul later as the gospel of the circumcision which is the Kingdom gospel.  and according to Acts 2 belief and Baptism are still enforced for the receiving the grace of God and then they are added to the church of the first born as found in Hebrews which is all Jews.

 

We do not wish to get into great theological debates with you we hold to one type of studying by right division and you hold to another.  BTW many IFB hold to dispensational study as we do.  so don't attack us if you don't

[AVBibleBeliever]

You can't find the term trinity or rapture in Scripture either so does that mean they aren't in Scripture.

 

There is one means of salvation, no one is saved by any other means.

this is why I use terms like "being caught up" "catching away" or our "gathering unto him" for these are the Biblical forms.

 

It is like Lucifer in Isa 14.  those the Hebrew literal translation was light bearer or bright one.  the understanding of the Hebrews was this was the enemy of God which is called Satan, the old dragon, an angel of light, that old serpent, the devil etc... .  the transliteration of the Latin was accepted as more accurate than a translation of the Hebrew and it did not lead to confusion as to who the angel of light truly is.

 

Rapture was carried over by the reformation churches, of which no baptist church is, and used when teaching about the Lord coming for his body or his own as revealed in 1thess 4:17.