Do You Believe There Was Not Rain Before The Flood Of Noah?

[TheSword]

But it is logical conjecture based on the scriptures.

 

 

Logical conjecture is still conjecture and not indisputable fact and thus should not be the basis of dogmatic doctrine.

[ThePilgrim]

Well maybe I should not be writing this because it is just my conjecture, but I will anyway.

The one thing which makes me think the climate wa radically different after the flood than before is the rapid deteriation in the life span of man.  That is shown in the bible by the genealogies. 

Why?  Well my guess is that the loss of cloud cover and the increase in solar radiations reaching the surface would have caused changes in both animal and plant life.  I could be wrong, but hey, you asked me.

Right or wrong it does not effect my salvation or my life one way or the other except maybe some will call me a nut.  But then in some peoples eyes I am a nut for reading the bible in the first place.

 

So anyway, for there to be a loss of cloud cover there had to be a lot more cloud cover before the flood.  Also one of the reasons that some poo poo the Noah flood is because today there is not enough water vapor in the firmament to flood the earth to the extent that is described in the biblical account.  I know during the flood there was also water released from underground aquifers also during the flood but that is not part of the question.

 

God bless,

Larry

[swathdiver]

You can see through ice, especially if God wants you too.  The verse that comes to mind said something about separating the waters from the waters and putting a firmament between them.

[Ukulelemike]

I don't understand why people think that the weather was any different than it is today.  The bible does not say there was a cloud covering over the earth and if there was how could they see the stars which were for times, seasons and signs.

 

One of the errors of some like Hovind and Morris is in thinking that the atmosphere was different before the flood than after. 

 

One thing I know it has never rained 40 days and 40 nights any where since then

Actually, there is scientific evidence of the weather being different than today, world-wide. Tropical forests at the poles, flash-frozen mammoths with greens still in their mouths and stomachs, found on the poles and other perpetually frozen areas; oxygen samples found in amber that show 50% more oxygen in the air; dinosaur nostrils that could not sustain animals of their size in today's oxygen and air pressure; animals that grew consistently larger than today, indicating more oxygen, higher air pressure and longer life. Shall we go on? Why did tarantulas get 3' across, dragonflies have 5' wingspans, rhinos and sloths grew to 18" tall, and tons of evidence of entire races of giant humans all over the earth? Only with greater age and more oxygen. As we lost those things, I believe due to sin and the change of the atmosphere after the flood, we lived shorter lives, and have grown smaller.

 

As for rain before the flood, who knows? There could have been, or the mist could have continued to water the ground. Ther serse doesn't give man tilling the ground as a reason for the mist, only because no rain had fallen, AND there was no man to till. he could till in the mist just as well as the rain. So maybe it did, maybe it didn't. let's stop trying to make dogmatic doctrines where none exist.

[AVBibleBeliever]

men did not live longer and longer lives from Genesis 3 to the flood.

[Ukulelemike]

men did not live longer and longer lives from Genesis 3 to the flood.

Longer than now, 900+ years then compared to 70-80 now. That's longer.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Longer than now, 900+ years then compared to 70-80 now. That's longer.

actually they lived shorter lives and a couple lived longer lives than others but mans life span was shortening on the average.  Just list out the ages of them and see for yourself.  And after the flood they continued to live shorter and shorter lives.

[DaveW]

Are you saying that when the Bible says Gen 5:
 5  And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
It didn't mean that?

What sort of justification do you have for rejecting the plain statement of Scripture.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Are you saying that when the Bible says Gen 5:
 5  And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
It didn't mean that?

What sort of justification do you have for rejecting the plain statement of Scripture.

I didn't say anything of the sort you are implying.  from the beginning after the fall men liver shorter lives in general

[Ukulelemike]

actually they lived shorter lives and a couple lived longer lives than others but mans life span was shortening on the average.  Just list out the ages of them and see for yourself.  And after the flood they continued to live shorter and shorter lives.

Adam, 930

Seth, 912 -

Enos, 905 -

Cainan, 910+

Mahalaleel, 895-

Jared, 962 +

Enoch, 365, (doesn't count as he never died)

Methuselah, 969+ (Died the year of the flood, so might he have lived longer?)

Lamech, 777 - 

Noah, 950+

 

I am not seeing a progression downward, but a general up and down movement, some longer, some shorter. It wasn't until after Noah, and really, until Peleg and his brother, that we really begin to see a major downward turn.

 

And remember, all we have here are the lives of this particular line-nothing to say that some didn't live longer than Methuselah, perhaps. We are ojnly given the one line, so its all we can go off, but there seems to be a pretty steady lifespan here of roughly 857, according to a site I looked at, though I'm not a mathematician. Anyone want to do the actual number crunching for a good average?

 

Anyways, not sure what your point is: they lived magnificently longer than we do today, and with more oxygen, they probably grew much taller than we do today. Like all the so-called 'prehistoric' animals did.

[AVBibleBeliever]

Adam, 930

Seth, 912 -

Enos, 905 -

Cainan, 910+

Mahalaleel, 895-

Jared, 962 +

Enoch, 365, (doesn't count as he never died)

Methuselah, 969+ (Died the year of the flood, so might he have lived longer?)

Lamech, 777 - 

Noah, 950+

 

I am not seeing a progression downward, but a general up and down movement, some longer, some shorter. It wasn't until after Noah, and really, until Peleg and his brother, that we really begin to see a major downward turn.

 

And remember, all we have here are the lives of this particular line-nothing to say that some didn't live longer than Methuselah, perhaps. We are ojnly given the one line, so its all we can go off, but there seems to be a pretty steady lifespan here of roughly 857, according to a site I looked at, though I'm not a mathematician. Anyone want to do the actual number crunching for a good average?

 

Anyways, not sure what your point is: they lived magnificently longer than we do today, and with more oxygen, they probably grew much taller than we do today. Like all the so-called 'prehistoric' animals did.

930, 912, 905 and you don't see their lives as being shorter than their father?  occasionally one is longer as I said but on the average men are living shorter lives even before th flood and yes there is a more drastic shortening of lives after the flood but still that cause of it all is sin not the atmosphere.

Edited February 19, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[Ukulelemike]

930, 912, 905 and you don't see their lives as being shorter than their father?  occasionally one is longer as I said but on the average men are living shorter lives even before th flood and yes there is a more drastic shortening of lives after the flood but still that cause of it all is sin not the atmosphere.

930, down, down, up,down, way up, doesn't count, waaay up, down, then, after the flood, Noah lived longer than Adam, the first man. So really, we see a more general progression up from Adam, ending with Noah living longer than Adam.

 

And yes, of course it is because of sin, but that's why everything changed, period-its ALL sin, even why Adam ONLY lived 930 years, but the change in the atmosphere and the climate and the oxygen levels and the very lay of the land are of course ALL due to sin. No argument there.

[DaveW]

My apologies - maybe the way you worded it, maybe the way I read it, but it appeared to me that you were saying they lived shorter lives than we do - that is why I questioned.

[2T3:16]

something different than "rain" Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

2:6

 

But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

 

I don't think it rained until after the flood.

[Ukulelemike]

something different than "rain" Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

2:6

 

But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

 

I don't think it rained until after the flood.

I generally lean that way, but I don't believe there's enough evidence in this statement to be dogmatic about it. But I don't see this as a serious issue either way-rain, no rain.