United Church Of God

[Left the Bldg]

I was baptized in AOG.  Am I part of the body?

[DaveW]

I was baptized in AOG. Am I part of the body?

IF the body is a local church - then your baptism would have made you a part of that local church - but since I doubt they would be very strong on local church they would probably disagree.

As they teach some clearly unbiblical doctrines I personally would not accept AOG baptism as biblical baptism.

[Left the Bldg]

You keep saying "IF" the body is the local church.  I thought you already established that the word "body" usually refers to local church so why keep saying "IF? "

 

So you think I'm not biblically baptized?  I would have to get baptized again in IFB?

[Galations 2:20]

Dave W.    Why not accept the AOG baptism? I do not know their particular doctrine, what is the false teaching?

 

However I do understand Baptism: A picture of the Resurrection (must be a dunk and not a sprinkle)n and that it is a picture of an inside change and that salvation is by faith alone and that a person could go to heaven without being baptized like the thief on the cross.

[DaveW]

I keep saying "if" to make it plain that it rides on that fact.

I would not accept AOG baptism because they teach lots wrong - especially about baptism being part of salvation.
Those who get saved in churches like that get saved in spite of what they teach, not because it (as a generalisation).
If someone is trusting their baptism to complete, seal, or somehow make secure their salvation, then they are neither saved nor scripturally baptised.

In my experience most AOG would fit that.

I am not suggesting that you are not saved by the way - people can get saved anywhere.
I would be interested to know if you think they taught salvation by grace through faith with nothing added, or if you were saved in spite of them adding tongues or baptism to salvation?

But if someone really did get saved in for instance a catholic church, and then got baptised there, I would not accept that baptism as that church teaches much which is unbiblical.

[DaveW]

Dave W. Why not accept the AOG baptism? I do not know their particular doctrine, what is the false teaching?

However I do understand Baptism: A picture of the Resurrection (must be a dunk and not a sprinkle)n and that it is a picture of an inside change and that salvation is by faith alone and that a person could go to heaven without being baptized like the thief on the cross.

Answering two streams is going to get confusing for everyone....

Basically, I would not accept them as a biblical new Testament church, therefore the baptism is not done with proper authority. It is a bit more complex than that, but that is the simple form.

[Miss Daisy]

I was saved in an AOG church and no they didn't teach any kind of works plus salvation or salvation plus baptism. I know it's not part of salvation but if any church pushes "works"(again, reiterating, not for part of salvation) it's IFB and door to door soul winning.

[Left the Bldg]

FYI..."IF" means possibly.  Possibly is not factual.

 

AOG does not teach baptism as part of salvation but an act of obedience and an outward expression of faith the same as IFB so, I am saved, scripturally baptized and part of a local church.  

 

With that said, do you think that IFB is the only local church that consist of the "body" mentioned in scripture?

[DaveW]

I have friends in a Church of Christ.
They will talk about salvation by faith alone. They deny baptism as any part of salvation.

But when my friend was baptised and we went to the party afterwards (?) People were coming up to him and saying "Congratulations, now you are safe".

The point being that what many groups say they teach and what they actually teach are not always the same, and sometimes the differences are so subtle that they are easily missed.

That is why I say "some saved in spite of what they teach".

[Left the Bldg]

You didn't answer my question.  Is the IFB church the "body" (local church) referred to in scripture?

[DaveW]

FYI..."IF" means possibly. Possibly is not factual.

AOG does not teach baptism as part of salvation but an act of obedience and an outward expression of faith the same as IFB so, I am saved, scripturally baptized and part of a local church.

With that said, do you think that IFB is the only local church that consist of the "body" mentioned in scripture?

Maybe then AoG is different here in Australia - I can guarantee here tongues is a sign of salvation, and all that I have spoken to talk of baptism as sealing salvation - that you can lose it until then.

I use the word if as a conditional - if this is true then that means this is true.

If body does mean local church then....

the inference being that if body is not local church then the argument falls.

As far as IFB being the body - each and every Biblical New Testament church is a body of Christ, not IFB as group.

[Left the Bldg]

What are the NT churches today besides IFB?

[DaveW]

You didn't answer my question. Is the IFB church the "body" (local church) referred to in scripture?

This is exactly why I keep saying if - it appears you still don't understand my meaning.
Church means local assembly, not denominational group.
Body also means local assembly.

IFB are not really a denomination - each is entirely separate and autonomous.

The church I go to is a body of Christ - the church my parents go to is a body of Christ - the church my sister goes to is a body of Christ.
Each are IFB, each are separate, each fit the description of body in for instance Romans 12.

Not "the IFB church" as a group for no such thing exists.

[DaveW]

What are the NT churches today besides IFB?

The determining factor for each individual assembly is not the name above the door, but whether or not they teach the Bible correctly.

[John81]

Maybe then AoG is different here in Australia - I can guarantee here tongues is a sign of salvation, and all that I have spoken to talk of baptism as sealing salvation - that you can lose it until then.

I use the word if as a conditional - if this is true then that means this is true.

If body does mean local church then....

the inference being that if body is not local church then the argument falls.

As far as IFB being the body - each and every Biblical New Testament church is a body of Christ, not IFB as group.

AOG churches vary greatly depending very much upon who the pastor is.

 

Some AOG churches are rather conservative, some are rather liberal and many more in between.

 

None of the AOG churches I've ever attended or known of directly ever taught baptism as necessary for salvation; none taught tongues speaking as a necessary sign of salvation; and none taught that one could lose their salvation. That said, there are some AOG churches around that teach one or more of those things.

 

The AOG church I was attending when I was saved was very conservative, the closest thing to "Charismatic" about it was some folks clapping during some songs. When the pastor there at that time moved to another church, the pastor which replaced him was extremely "Charismatic". Him and his wife would take the stage together (it wasn't a platform anymore, he added a band, moved the pulpit out of the way, added some decorations, etc.) and speak in tongues (the gibberish stuff, not an actual human language), and before long several folks in the congregation started speaking in tongues; of course with the band came loud rocking music, this was attended by dancing and jumping around, and that's when I left that church.