Acts 13

[heartstrings]

There is a basic "root" meaning for the word "ordained" but it may be a little tough to wrap your head around it if you hold to the modern useage of the word. Below is an example of how it was used in middle English literature, namely, by Geoffrey Chaucer; the "father" of English Literature. This is from The Canterbury Tales circa 14th century. When you read it, ask yourself who ordains men to concupiscence?

." From Adam we took original sin;
"from him fleshly descended be we all, and engendered of vile
and corrupt matter;" and the penalty of Adam's transgression
dwelleth with us as to temptation, which penalty is called
concupiscence. "This concupiscence, when it is wrongfully
disposed or ordained in a man, it maketh him covet, by covetise
of flesh, fleshly sin by sight of his eyes, as to earthly things, and
also covetise of highness by pride of heart." The Parson
proceeds to shew how man is tempted in his flesh to sin; how,
after his natural concupiscence, comes suggestion of the devil,

 

Nobody "ordains" concupiscence in a person: He ordains himself to it.

Hold that thought just a second and read this....

I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,) 1 Corinthians 16:15

 

That word "addicted" in 1 Corinthians 16, was translated from the same Greek word "Tasso" that "ordained" was translated from in Acts 13. Same word. Now hold those two thoughts I've got one more thing.......I made a post awhile about the Pharaohs being "ordained" to eternal life. Well they were. But you won't understand that unless you have the understanding of the root meaning of the word ordained, The Egyptians were prime examples. perfect examples, of Gentiles who spent their whole lives preparing for the time that they would die and their "Ka" would live on in eternity. And it's not just Egyptians who did this; archaeologists are still finding graves and tombs of "Gentiles" who provided tools, personal items and even FOOD  to accompany them in the afterlife. A person who is "ordained" to concupiscence is, in effect, "addicted" to his own sin. He is established and disposed to that sin. So, the basic meaning of "ordained" appears to be "set", "fixed", "ordered", or "established", and not too far from meaning "addicted" The man Chaucer wrote of, ordained himself. The Egyptians ordered their lives toward the afterlife.. A person CAN be ordained by another, but the root meaning is the same: namely that they were "established" by another person and the Bible uses it that way many times.. But the Bible does not name ANYONE as having ordained the gentiles in Acts 13 so we can safely conclude that they ordained themselves.

 

By contrast, I have heard many men say that they believed that death is the end and that they are OK with that. Well, the ancient gentiles, including the Egyptians, were not OK with it: they wanted to live on. And when the ones in Acts 13 heard the Good News of THE LIFE, they gladly embraced it.

[John81]

Wow!  Sword and Heartstrings, you two really got my head grinding gears now! Y'all may be correct in this, and I do understand the point you are trying to make, but I'm still not fully able to follow the trail, but that may be okay.

 

One thing I do wonder though is why, if the same Greek word was translated in other places as something else, why did the KJB translators choose to go with "ordained"; especially if one of the other possible words they could have chosen may have fit better?

 

This may turn out to be one of those verses I have to simply accept on faith until or unless the Lord grants me a clearer understanding.

 

I really do appreciate the in-depth effort that's been put into answering the OP. I have a better understanding now than when I asked the question and it's possible after this new information sets for awhile it will solid up in my understanding.

[ASongOfDegrees]

That question is part of the reason I'm wondering how to understand this. Mainly because of the order and wording "were ordained to eternal life believed".

 

Does this mean those who believed were already ordained to believe? (if so, just what does that mean?)

If not, then what does it actually mean that they "were ordained", which seems to be past tense (if not, please inform)?

 

I'm reading and studying through Acts right now and for some reason this verse just jumped right out at me today and has me pondering just how to understand it.

John, I just wanted to point out that nothing in the passage insists that the ordaining occurred before the foundation of the world. This is the same mistake people make when they read Romans 9:9-15 where the typical reformed reading is that the passage supports unconditional election before the foundation of the world when the passage clearly states that the election took place when Esau and Jacob were in the womb (vs. 10-12).

 

The ordination is based on the passage that precedes it. 

 

Acts 13:47- For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

 

This is a quotation of  Isaiah 49:6 where it is spiritually applied by Paul to the gospel.  The Gentiles would come to Christ through the gospel. If anything the ordination occurred at this time and is fulfilled by any Gentile who opens his heart to the message and believes.

 

Also, I firmly believe that the verse has something to do with Romans 2:4-11 where you have OT Gentiles promised eternal life based on good works. Apparently, this is a case like Cornelius (Acts 10) who was a devout and just man but still had to hear the gospel in order to be saved. He was ordained to hear the gospel in order to be saved. The Gentiles in Acts 13:48 could have been such a people or perhaps were proselytes to the Jewish religion. They fit the profile of Romans 2:4-11 yet still needed to hear the gospel. Therefore, they were ordained to eternal life. Also, you have Jesus preaching to gospel to those in paradise and leading captivity captive. Another case of Gentiles prior to the gospel who were ordained to eternal life based on their good works yet still needed to hear the gospel and believe in order to be saved since we know that ultimately works don't save.

 

Do you get what I'm saying? Think about it a little. Romans 2 will make more sense once you examine it this way.

 

Here's two other verses that always stumped me but in the context of what I just wrote seem to make more sense:

 

John 3:20,21

 

[20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

[21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

This also seems to fit into the Romans 2:9-14 scenario. Those who do the truth will come to the light (compare with Romans 2:7). The light here is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Again, a situation prior to the cross where a man who performed good deeds and patiently waited for the salvation of the Lord was ordained to hear the gospel and believe (i.e. ordained to eternal life).

[John81]

John, I just wanted to point out that nothing in the passage insists that the ordaining occurred before the foundation of the world. This is the same mistake people make when they read Romans 9:9-15 where the typical reformed reading is that the passage supports unconditional election before the foundation of the world when the passage clearly states that the election took place when Esau and Jacob were in the womb (vs. 10-12).

 

The ordination is based on the passage that precedes it. 

 

Acts 13:47- For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

 

This is a quotation of  Isaiah 49:6 where it is spiritually applied by Paul to the gospel.  The Gentiles would come to Christ through the gospel. If anything the ordination occurred at this time and is fulfilled by any Gentile who opens his heart to the message and believes.

 

Also, I firmly believe that the verse has something to do with Romans 2:4-11 where you have OT Gentiles promised eternal life based on good works. Apparently, this is a case like Cornelius (Acts 10) who was a devout and just man but still had to hear the gospel in order to be saved. He was ordained to hear the gospel in order to be saved. The Gentiles in Acts 13:48 could have been such a people or perhaps were proselytes to the Jewish religion. They fit the profile of Romans 2:4-11 yet still needed to hear the gospel. Therefore, they were ordained to eternal life. Also, you have Jesus preaching to gospel to those in paradise and leading captivity captive. Another case of Gentiles prior to the gospel who were ordained to eternal life based on their good works yet still needed to hear the gospel and believe in order to be saved since we know that ultimately works don't save.

 

Do you get what I'm saying? Think about it a little. Romans 2 will make more sense once you examine it this way.

 

Here's two other verses that always stumped me but in the context of what I just wrote seem to make more sense:

 

John 3:20,21

 

[20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

[21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

This also seems to fit into the Romans 2:9-14 scenario. Those who do the truth will come to the light (compare with Romans 2:7). The light here is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Again, a situation prior to the cross where a man who performed good deeds and patiently waited for the salvation of the Lord was ordained to hear the gospel and believe (i.e. ordained to eternal life).

As you are presenting this, wouldn't this also go along with Romans 1 where we are told that none are without excuse because God can be seen in the creation, with the meaning seeming to be that if one recognizes this and searches for God, he will find Him? In other words, God has ordained that if one truly seeks Him, even not yet knowing of Him, God will make sure he comes to Him. Which would seem to go along with those Gentiles truly seeking to know God, so God told them to send for Peter, who then brought them the Gospel and they were saved.

 

Previously I mentioned that I wasn't even thinking of "Calvinism" when I was trying to figure this verse out. It wasn't until someone mentioned it first in this thread that I saw any connection, so I wasn't even thinking along those lines.

 

Your explanation here somehow seems to flow fairly well, with just a few ripples I need to read over again to see if it smooths out for me.

 

Thank you!

[Invicta]

As you are presenting this, wouldn't this also go along with Romans 1 where we are told that none are without excuse because God can be seen in the creation, with the meaning seeming to be that if one recognizes this and searches for God, he will find Him? In other words, God has ordained that if one truly seeks Him, even not yet knowing of Him, God will make sure he comes to Him. Which would seem to go along with those Gentiles truly seeking to know God, so God told them to send for Peter, who then brought them the Gospel and they were saved.

 

Previously I mentioned that I wasn't even thinking of "Calvinism" when I was trying to figure this verse out. It wasn't until someone mentioned it first in this thread that I saw any connection, so I wasn't even thinking along those lines.

 

Your explanation here somehow seems to flow fairly well, with just a few ripples I need to read over again to see if it smooths out for me.

 

Thank you!

 

John 

There is always someone who try to explain away those verses.  Acceepting them as they read is not Calvinism but scripture.

[John81]

John 

There is always someone who try to explain away those verses.  Acceepting them as they read is not Calvinism but scripture.

That's what I'm trying to figure out, just what does this verse mean, as written.

 

The simple reading seems to be that those ordained to eternal life believed.

 

That leaves the question of just what "ordained" means here, and as others have suggested, who did the ordaining, when was the ordaining done.

 

Also, I just noticed that some seem to perhaps (I'm not sure, so anyone feel free to correct or elaborate here) be saying that ordained to eternal life and believed are two separate things. I'm not sure. Like some were ordained to eternal life but God had to move them to believe. Maybe I'm just getting tired!

 

In any event, I'm considering what's put forth here and appreciate any input anyone has to offer.

[Invicta]

That's what I'm trying to figure out, just what does this verse mean, as written.

 

The simple reading seems to be that those ordained to eternal life believed.

 

That leaves the question of just what "ordained" means here, and as others have suggested, who did the ordaining, when was the ordaining done.

 

Also, I just noticed that some seem to perhaps (I'm not sure, so anyone feel free to correct or elaborate here) be saying that ordained to eternal life and believed are two separate things. I'm not sure. Like some were ordained to eternal life but God had to move them to believe. Maybe I'm just getting tired!

 

In any event, I'm considering what's put forth here and appreciate any input anyone has to offer.

 

Someone has put it like this,  It is like a building that has an invitation over the door "Whosoever will may come." And when we enter we see a sign which says, "Saved by grace,"     

 

Here we have man's responsibility, and Gods, saving grace.  Both work together,

[John81]

Someone has put it like this,  It is like a building that has an invitation over the door "Whosoever will may come." And when we enter we see a sign which says, "Saved by grace,"     

 

Here we have man's responsibility, and Gods, saving grace.  Both work together,

Hmmmm, that bears some consideration. I'll have to ponder this through as I read the verse again.

[heartstrings]

John 81,

This concupiscence, when it is wrongfully
disposed or ordained in a man, it maketh him covet, by covetise --       Geoffrey Chaucer circa late 14th century

 

 How did "concupiscence" ( lust) become ordained in this man?   The answer is: he got that way by himself, by continuing in his sin.  The original meaning of the word "ordained" basically means that you are "set" "ordered" or "established" to something. You can become "established" by another person or you can become that way by yourself. Most all passages in the KJB tell WHO is ordained, WHAT they are ordained to and WHO did the ordaining. But in Acts 13. nobody is mentioned as doing the ordaining. Folks can assume God did it all they want to but it ain't there. The Gentiles in Acts13 just wanted very much to live forever. That's all it means. And those who wanted eternal life believed on Christ.

[swathdiver]

 

What is the understanding of this verse?

 

Acts 13:48

King James Version (KJV)

⁴⁸ And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

 

 

Very simply, they heard, they were happy, they glorified the word of the Lord and they were saved (ordained).  Their account was settled (ordained) and they received eternal life through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

[John81]

John 81,

 How did "concupiscence" ( lust) become ordained in this man?   The answer is: he got that way by himself, by continuing in his sin.  The original meaning of the word "ordained" basically means that you are "set" "ordered" or "established" to something. You can become "established" by another person or you can become that way by yourself. Most all passages in the KJB tell WHO is ordained, WHAT they are ordained to and WHO did the ordaining. But in Acts 13. nobody is mentioned as doing the ordaining. Folks can assume God did it all they want to but it ain't there. The Gentiles in Acts13 just wanted very much to live forever. That's all it means. And those who wanted eternal life believed on Christ.

Okay, I follow what you are saying here. Somehow this gets through more clearly to me than a previous post. Thank you.

[John81]

Very simply, they heard, they were happy, they glorified the word of the Lord and they were saved (ordained).  Their account was settled (ordained) and they received eternal life through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

If that is the meaning, then this would make sense.

[TheSword]

Wow!  Sword and Heartstrings, you two really got my head grinding gears now! Y'all may be correct in this, and I do understand the point you are trying to make, but I'm still not fully able to follow the trail, but that may be okay.

 

One thing I do wonder though is why, if the same Greek word was translated in other places as something else, why did the KJB translators choose to go with "ordained"; especially if one of the other possible words they could have chosen may have fit better?

 

This may turn out to be one of those verses I have to simply accept on faith until or unless the Lord grants me a clearer understanding.

 

I really do appreciate the in-depth effort that's been put into answering the OP. I have a better understanding now than when I asked the question and it's possible after this new information sets for awhile it will solid up in my understanding.

 

This is just personal assessment here, but I think they chose "ordain" because it was the most accurate word in their time. 400 years ago English had far fewer words that had larger ranges of meaning. Over time our usage has added new words and narrowed the meanings of some older ones. We use "ordain" now almost exclusively in a divine or religious sense. We "ordain" people to be pastors and talk about how God "ordains" something to be so (largely based on Biblical usage). Just 200 years ago, the Founding Fathers "ordained" the Constitution of the U.S. (see the last sentence of the preamble), which is likely a closer usage to the discussion at hand in which we are talking about appointing or decreeing. That's why I always try to look at the older definitions when doing Bible word studies. We have to keep in mind that if we apply today's standards of writing, the KJB is written at the 12th-grade level; however our society reads at the 7th-8th grade level on average. Sometimes it takes an extra step to grasp real English and I struggle with it mightily sometimes because we just have an ingrained notion of that most words mean only one thing so we memorize that one definition and forget the rest.

[heartstrings]

John 

There is always someone who try to explain away those verses.  Acceepting them as they read is not Calvinism but scripture.

Do you really understand every sentence in the King James Bible? I will admit; I do not.

Digging into a verse, researching individual words with a desire to get the right understanding instead of just skimming over it, and deriving a superficial understanding of what it might appear to be saying, is not "explaining away".  It's called studying. The word "ordained" in Acts 13:48 states that some gentiles were "ordained" but it never says who ordained them. And by studying early English Literature, I have discovered that authors in the King James time period also used to word "ordained" for instances where people became "ordained" to things by themselves. 2 Timothy 2:15 tells us to "Study" and it does not tell us just to use only a dictionary.

[heartstrings]

From the epic poem Paradise Lost by John Milton (1608-1674)

 

They trespass, Authors to themselves in all
Both what they judge and what they choose; for so
I formd them free, and free they must remain,
Till they enthrall themselves: I else must change
Thir nature, and revoke the high Decree
Unchangeable, Eternal, which ordain'd
Thir freedom, they themselves ordain'd thir fall.
The first sort by thir own suggestion fell,

130

Self-tempted, self-deprav'd: Man falls deceiv'd
By the other first: Man therefore shall find grace,