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Are The Jews Still The Chosen Ones Today And Why?

The Glory Land

By The Glory Land
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Covenanter Veteran

Covenanter

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The teaching in Rom. 11 of the olive tree, believing Gentiles & Jews being grafted into one tree:

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

If there is to be a Jewish end times revival, many Jews will believe in their Messiah & be grafted in, with believing Gentiles & the Jews before Christ & down the Gospel age.

 

The tree clearly represents true Israel, the redeemed & believing people of God in Christ. The whole idea of two separate redeemed peoples of God is foreign to Scripture. Is Christ divided? Consider Jesus parable of the vine, Peter & Paul of the temple built with living stones.

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beameup Proficient

beameup

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The teaching in Rom. 11 of the olive tree, believing Gentiles & Jews being grafted into one tree:

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

If there is to be a Jewish end times revival, many Jews will believe in their Messiah & be grafted in, with believing Gentiles & the Jews before Christ & down the Gospel age.

 

The tree clearly represents true Israel, the redeemed & believing people of God in Christ. The whole idea of two separate redeemed peoples of God is foreign to Scripture. Is Christ divided? Consider Jesus parable of the vine, Peter & Paul of the temple built with living stones.

Gentiles are not any kind of "olive tree", wild or otherwise.  "Olive Tree" refers to genetic Jews.

Best to do a very thorough study on this often misinterpreted passage.  There is more than one group of "elect".

The "Body of Christ" is a wholly separate entity, saved by grace alone without the works or knowledge of the Law.

 

The Jews of today (except for a small number that have abandoned Judaism & joined with Gentiles),

are cut-off from the "Root" (of belief) which started with Abraham.  God is able to "graft them in again" during the Tribulation.

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Dr James Ach Proficient

Dr James Ach

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Both of you, Covenanter and Invicta, are ignoring the clear passages I gave regarding the birthright of Ephraim that has never been fulfilled that has NOTHING to do with the church. The entire figurative language of the olive tree is about the Gentile being graffed in to receiving mercy through faith to fulfill the promise to Abraham. The nation of Israel has a different covenant, but to obtain that covenant, they must also adhere to the New Testament by acknowledging, accepting, receiving Christ as Messiah.

 

There is no "two redeemed people of God", there is one way of redemption, that is necessary to 2 different covenants. The GOSPEL of the CIRCUMCISION was Peter's, and the GOSPEL of the UNCIRCUMCISION (Gentiles) was Paul's. Galations 2:7. As I stated, the Gentiles inherited the spiritual blessings by faith of Abraham which came through JUDAH, NOT EPHRAIM. The Kingdom of Heaven is us being NOW seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6), and is a spiritual kingdom. The promise to Ephraim is a PHYSICAL kingdom of God that is not reckoned after the genealogy of Judah (1 Chronicles 5:1-2). The failure to GET THIS is why we have amillennialism, post-millennialism, preterism, historicism and covenant theology.

 

"For this is my covenant unto THEM, when I shall take away their sins." (Romans 11:27). Who's "THEM"? If all of the covenants are done with, and all was fulfilled in AD 70, why is Paul referencing a future covenant? This could not have been fulfilled in AD 70 because the Jews were cut off long before AD 70. The first rejections were under Peter and Stephen's preaching. Acts 4:5-31, Acts 5:12-42, Acts 7. Then under Paul, Acts 13:44-44-52, 18:1-7, and 28:17-29. Since most agree that Romans was written between 55-58 AD, 58 AD at the LATEST, and Paul made clear that Israel was placed under blindness in Romans 11, Israel had already been set aside 10 years before the assumption that their judgment occurred in 66-70 AD.

 

Jesus made clear that the apostles would sit on thrones judging the literal 12 tribes of Israel (Matthew 19) Kind of hard to that DURING THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES when this is clearly a JEWISH promise. 1 Peter says the church reigns as PRIESTS, a royal priesthood in THIS dispensation --NOT KINGS in a future economy (or now). The church will be PART of the blessings inherited by Israel in the Kingdom of God, but not one single Gentile reigns as a king during the Millennium. The only time kings and priests are mentioned together is by John when writing Revelation TO JEWS. John writes to those who are made KINGS (Jews) and PRIESTS (church). When you understand how the judges and priests operated in the OT, and see the differences in the promises inherited by the church, and those yet to be fulfilled in Israel, you will see the difference between the role of the church and Israel in the Kingdom both of whom will rule over all of the nations during the Kingdom.

 

Furthermore, most preterists and covenant theologians claim that the last week of Daniel (9:27) is a generational extension from AD 30 (or 33 whichever camp you choose to follow) to AD 70, to make all of the OT prophecies and Revelation fit the AD 70 myth. How they agree that the first 483 years were LITERAL 483 YEARS from the Decree of Ezra to Christ, but then the last week is FIGURATIVE is the greatest eschatological blunder in all of Christendom.

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Covenanter Veteran

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Romans 11:29 was one of the places I was going, you beat me to it :)

 

If they weren't still "chosen", then there would be no remnant (Rom 9:27), there would be no real Jew testing fake Jews (Rev 2:2,9; 3:9).

 

Paul explains about who are true Jews In Rom. 2. Thw question he deals with in 9-11 is whether God has broken his promises and/or how & why the Jews have failed to enjoy their promised inheritance. Especially as 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. He has already made it very clear in Rom. 9:

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

He goes on to show that the promises count in the Gentiles:.

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

 

If there were ANY doubt about Jew & Gentile believers being counted together as the people of God, Paul emphasisesin Rom. 15:

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

 

Being left behind in the rapture has nothing to do with the election of Israel.

The whole idea of "left behind" when Jesus returns is foreign to Scripture. There is no suggestion in Scripture that Believers will be "raptured" leaving the wicked behind to face earthly tribulation. The parable of the tares doesn't teach that the wheat is harvested, & the tares left behind to grow on. They are gathered & burnt.

Mat. 13: 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Sadly, there were plenty of tares in Israel - &still are, in Israel & around the world.

 

Being "chosen" begs the question-chosen for what? God not did have just one "choice" plan. Christ Himself is referred to as being elect (Isa 42:1, 1 Peter 2:6) so did Christ need to be elect to be saved? (which would hinge on a fallacy that He needed saved at all.)

Chosen IN CHRIST. I needed say more.


Paul shows clearly that there is a difference between Jew, Gentile and the Church:
"Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God" 1 Cor 10:32.

Look at the context. That covers everybody - Jew & Gentile unbelievers - who could be offended by Christians attending & eating meat offered to idols, at their feasts. We are free to partake, but if a well-meaning Jew, Gentile or Christian advises us that the meat has been sacrificed to idols then, for their conscience sake, we should not eat. We do not wish to present a hindrance to sinners we seek to lead to Christ, nor to encourage undue freedom to weak believers who might go astray.  

 

Israel has yet to fulfill the birthright promise to Ephraim in Genesis 48-49. The church inherited the spiritual blessings of faith through Abraham, but the church has nothing to do with the physical promises that are yet to be fulfilled in Israel. The spiritual blessings were fulfilled in the genealogy of Abraham through Judah to Christ (Genesis 49:10,Romans 9:1-7, Galations 3:16), but the birthright was not reckoned after the genealogy (1 Chronicles 5:1-2).

The birthright promise was to Ephraim, in person as the son of Joseph, the firstborn of Rachel, Jacob's chosen wife. He would have claimed that birthright at the death of Jacob - a physical tract of land & other possessions. After Moses, Joshua of the tribe of Ephraim was the leader. Note also that Ephraim's allotted land included Bethel, where Jacob had his wonderful dream.

 

The physical promises are carnal - examples & shadows of the heavenly things. That was Israel's great blunder - they saw only the carnal & rejected the heavenly.      

 

This fact alone-without even touching on all of the other fallacies of the following-throws a monkey wrench in all amil, post mil, preterist/covenant/historicist/Calvinist theology.

That confirms your total lack of understanding of Covenant, etc, theology.

 

The plan that God has for the church is entirely different and separate from what God has told the nation of Israel.

You only say that because you have rejected God's eternal plans, promises & purposes IN CHRIST. You see carnal Israel as the centre of God's purposes, rather than the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

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Invicta Hall of Fame

Invicta

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I am not sure what Mr Ach is getting at.  His reasoning seems to be very disjointed. Is he saying Christ has one kingdom or two?  If one to whom does the following scripture refer?

 

4 ¶  And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:
5  A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6  And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7  And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
8  And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
9  And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
10  And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11  Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12  Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13  They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14  And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15  But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
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beameup Proficient

beameup

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I am not sure what Mr Ach is getting at.  His reasoning seems to be very disjointed. Is he saying Christ has one kingdom or two?  If one to whom does the following scripture refer?

 

 
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.  Revelation 11:15
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