Alcohol: A Biblical Case For Abstinance

[Standing Firm In Christ]

This thread is about alcohol.  Perhaps you'd like to start a new one on food elsewhere.

[Left the Bldg]

The Bible tells us not to be stumblingblocks. 

Sadly, many don't even realize that they are stumblingblocks when they justify alcohol. 

How many will see a "Christian" drinking a beer, or buying a beer, and think it is OK to drink and become drunkards?  We don't know the number.  But it does happen.

How many have heard a "Christian" say "You can drink, but don't get drunk" and then become a drunkard because the "one drink" took control of their mind?  Again, we don't know the number.  But it does happen.

Sorry Laura, but when you defend alcohol as you do, you are not doing the Lord's work.

I'm not defending alcohol at all.  I've seen what alcoholism has done to people from anywhere to broken homes and health problems and death.  I know people that drink an occasional glass of wine or a wine cooler at bbq's and they don't get drunk or become alcoholics...that's all.  Don't drink but don't condemn someone to hell who may have a problem.  Our church has a program called reformers anonymous.  They have compassion for people who struggle with addictions and it's not just alcohol. Where is your compassion?

[Left the Bldg]

This thread is about alcohol.  Perhaps you'd like to start a new one on food elsewhere.

Did I strike a nerve?  No...I'm sticking to alcohol but just wanted to show inconsistencies.  

[Left the Bldg]

I'm not defending alcohol at all.  I've seen what alcoholism has done to people from anywhere to broken homes and health problems and death.  I know people that drink an occasional glass of wine or a wine cooler at bbq's and they don't get drunk or become alcoholics...that's all.  Don't drink but don't condemn someone to hell who may have a problem.  Our church has a program called reformers anonymous.  They have compassion for people who struggle with addictions and it's not just alcohol. Where is your compassion?

And don't assume I'm not doing the Lord's work.  You have no idea what I do in my life on a daily basis.  Some of which you may not be able to handle.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

No, you did not strike a nerve.  Anyone who knows me knows I am not a glutton.  On our disability income, we couldn't afford the luxury of excess food.

The funny thing, it never fails those who try to defend people drinking (even in moderation) always try to justify that drinking by accusatory remarks of gluttony.

And yes, you are defending alcohol, whether you want to admit it or not.  Anyone reading your posts can see that and if a lost person picked up a bottle because of your arguing that I am wrong, you have placed a stumbling block before that person.

[Left the Bldg]

No, you did not strike a nerve.  Anyone who knows me knows I am not a glutton.  On our disability income, we couldn't afford the luxury of excess food.

The funny thing, it never fails those who try to defend people drinking (even in moderation) always try to justify that drinking by accusatory remarks of gluttony.

And yes, you are defending alcohol, whether you want to admit it or not.  Anyone reading your posts can see that and if a lost person picked up a bottle because of your arguing that I am wrong, you have placed a stumbling block before that person.

I'm not defending alcohol.  I don't even drink.  I just don't tell people they're going to hell and you have no right to tell anyone that either based on any topic.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The Bible says they are going to hell if they are drunkards.

Just one drink begins its deception... one little sip.

Go ahead and defend your stance.  I'll keep preaching the truth.

[Left the Bldg]

The Bible says they are going to hell if they are drunkards.

Just one drink begins its deception... one little sip.

Go ahead and defend your stance.  I'll keep preaching the truth.

Everyone agrees here that drunkenness is a sin.  I am not defending drunkenness. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

One begins drunkenness from the very first sip of alcohol. One doesn't drink four or five beers and then becomes drunk after the last sip.

The first sip was just as much a contributer to the drunkenness as the last sip was. The first sip began killing brain cells, deadening the conscience enough for the imbiber to take a second sip. Then a third, fourth, fifth, etc,,

[Left the Bldg]

One begins drunkenness from the very first sip of alcohol. One doesn't drink four or five beers and then becomes drunk after the last sip.

The first sip was just as much a contributer to the drunkenness as the last sip was. The first sip began killing brain cells, deadening the conscience enough for the imbiber to take a second sip. Then a third, fourth, fifth, etc,,

Where is a scripture on that?  I don't like the taste of alcohol but I have had a sip at a wedding during the toast a time or two in my life and had never been drunk on a sip nor did it lead me to alcoholism. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Another look at Deuteronomy 14:26 in its context:

Deuteronomy 14:22-27 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

Notice that the tithe was to be taken to the place that God chose.  (that place was in Jerusalem where the Temple was)  The Levites in Jerusalem were working at the Temple.

Big problem if the wine and strong drink in Deuteronomy 14:26 was alcoholic.  It would contradict Leviticus 10:9, which reads:

Leviticus 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

The Levites were not to drink wine nor strong drink when they were working their course at the Tabernacle.  If the tithe of Deuteronomy 14:26 were alcoholic and it was to be shared with the Levites as the context shows, then the Levites would die upon entering the Tabernacle after consuming the alcohol. 

Thus, the wine and strong drink that God approved in Deuteronomy 14:26 could not have been an alcoholic wine.

 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Where is a scripture on that?  I don't like the taste of alcohol but I have had a sip at a wedding during the toast a time or two in my life and had never been drunk on a sip nor did it lead me to alcoholism. 

Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Wine deceives the one imbibing it.  The Bible says,

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Don't even look at it when it is fermented.  It has the ability to deceive the one drinking it.

[Left the Bldg]

Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Wine deceives the one imbibing it.  The Bible says,

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Don't even look at it when it is fermented.  It has the ability to deceive the one drinking it.

Psalms 104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

 

All these scriptures have already been posted.

 

Moderation, prohibition, abstinence.  Believe what you want.  I personally believe in abstinence. My mom always said "be smart, don't start."

 

Negative references refer to fermentation.  Positive references refer to juice.  No one is consistent and can make up their mind.

 

My concern isn't what you believe about alcohol.  It's that you think you have the right to say who goes to hell.

 

We are to share the good news and make disciples.  That's our responsibility as Christians.  Not determine where one spends eternity because they don't agree with you.  Stop doing God's job and using scripture to try to justify it. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Psalm 104 is not speaking of a fermented wine. If it were, it would be contradicting Proverbs 23:31, which tells us not to look upon fermented wine.

Looks like you are trying to use Scripture to justify drinking of alcohol.

[DaveW]

I always think it is funny when someone reads what they want to see instead of what is written........