Are Christians That Drink Wine Not Saved?

[robmac68]

You know, the Bible doesn't say anywhere that smoking is wrong. I think that, if we smoke in moderation, there really shouldn't be any problem with it.

 

The Bible also never says we can't have a physical relationship with children. Pedophiles are really only loving children in the most initimate way and nowhere do we see the Bible tell us it is sin to have sex with a child. But we are called to love one another, so why not love children as much as possible?

 

I assume you see my point here. These are things that, I assume, we all understand are wrong-yet the Bible has much more to say against drinking alcohol than these, yet there are those who will fight against the two, while insisting the other is fine.

 

A point was made many pages back-that booze-alcohol, is really of no good use. Any supposed benefit you get from it is all gained from the grape, not the alcohol. Alcohol, itself, is a poison-even in "moderation" it damages the brain and the liver, and can act as a blood-thinner, causing bleeding-type strokes-really all the body. Just because in moderation it takes longer for the negative effects to be seen doesn't make it more right. I gave up soda as sin (personal between myself and the Lord, not applying to others) because of the damage it did to my body, specifically the high fructose corn syrup-how much more does alcohol hurt the body, which is the temple of the Lord? The effects are plain and clear-there is NOTHING good about alcoholic beverages.

 

As well, the associations of alcohol are all negative-bars, drunkeness, child and spousal abuse, drunk driving accidents and deaths, alcoholsm; we could continue all day expressing the negative associations with booze.  And hey, when someone has that first moderate drink, whose to say that he isn't one of those who is subject to addiction?

 

No one on Skid Row, no alcoholic, no AA patron ended up where they were without that first drink. Alcohol is well called 'spirits', for there are surely wicked spirits involved with it, and those who are deceived thereby aren't wise.

You gave up soda as sin?  In nursing class, I had a teacher tell the class that, in comparisson, 1 can of soda is harder on the body than 1 can of beer or glass of wine.  I have heard people stick to their guns and say smoking is sin because it hurts the body, meanwhile they are well over weight and guzzling soda.  It seemed hypocritical to me. My hats off to you for giving up soda.  That stuff is bad news.  I have a few bottles of Dew left here at work, but when they are gone, I plan on doing the same thing and giving it up. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

That nursing teacher obviously was biased toward alcohol, or he/she would not have made such a statement.

I have never read stories of someone drinking a can of soda and that soda causing drunkenness.

But I have read many where one can of beer has cause drunkenness.

12 ounces of beer, drank over a half hour time period puts the BAC of a 225 lb man at 0.01 percent.  The man's judgment is impaired, his reaction time is impaired, brain cells have been killed that will never regenerate.

 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

From:  http://www.craighillinjurylaw.com/library/a-louisiana-car-accident-can-be-caused-by-just-one-beer-glass-of-wine.cfm

According to researchers from the University of California, San Diego, a single beer or glass of wine can raise blood-alcohol concentrations enough to affect a person's ability to operate a vehicle safely and increase their chances of being injured in a car accident. They concluded that a blood-alcohol concentration of just 0.01 increases the odds of being involved in a serious automobile accident.

[Heir of Salvation]

I have to admit that in much of this.............. I'm guess you have been, too. I assume you have't always been perfect, either.

An excellent and revealing post Mike,  You batted 1,000 here!  Thank you for this challenging, thought-provoking post.  This is an excellent and worthy counter-balance to the post I made...keep it up!

[Heir of Salvation]

From:  http://www.craighillinjurylaw.com/library/a-louisiana-car-accident-can-be-caused-by-just-one-beer-glass-of-wine.cfm

According to researchers from the University of California, San Diego, a single beer or glass of wine can raise blood-alcohol concentrations enough to affect a person's ability to operate a vehicle safely and increase their chances of being injured in a car accident. They concluded that a blood-alcohol concentration of just 0.01 increases the odds of being involved in a serious automobile accident.

And....while wise men like John and Mike give excellent rejoinders to my posts.....you continue with nit-picking non-facts:

 

Guess what.........I'm fully aware that a 0.01% blood-alcohol level increases one's chances of a "SERIOUS" car accident......guess what?..........It increases one's chances of an "insignifigant fender-bender" too!  Why didn't you submit that relevant fact in evidence???  Statistics are funny things, and you have to understand how to use them correctly.....

 

I'll accept your irrelevant and OBVIOUS statistic and submit that even a 0.000000000000000001% blood-alcohol level "increases chances" of a "serious" accident........it probably increases the chances of insignifigant fender-benders too.

 

But, by how much????...........your coffee, if you are too easily hyper-energized will do PRECISELY the same thing.

 

Here's a hint..... I know it's a common Zeitgeist...but "Numbers do NOT speak for themselves"......that cliche' is false, they are ONLY meaningful within a pre-arranged propositional construct.   Numbers say absolutely nothing in a vacuum...only Propositions do.  You are engaged in argumentum ad verbosum............you could insert THOUSANDS of irrelevant numbers into the debate if you so wish...but, they mean nothing alone.

 

A dearth of numerical statistics sounds convincing to most people.......but, it proves NOTHING in reality.  Here's one of the most brilliant Economists extant (Thomas Sowell) on the issue:

Facts do not speak for themselves. They speak for or against competing theories. Facts divorced from theories or visions are mere isolated curiosities.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomassowe371255.html#BO8tQpOzWIVMV4zQ.99

 

This is similar to those who preach against "BIG OIL"...........isn't "small OIL" equally as complicit???

 

If "SERIOUS" accidents are more likely.....than aren't also "insignifigant" accidents equally as likely?

 

I'm a 35-year-old Jit, and I'd like to quote C.S. Lewis here:

"Goodness, what ARE they teaching these kids at these schools?"

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Continue to justify someone being a drunkard and serving your drunkard savior.

I'll continue to preach the true Christ.

[Heir of Salvation]

That nursing teacher obviously was biased toward alcohol, or he/she would not have made such a statement.
 

Good thing you are here and have absolutely NO bias AGAINST it yes???  Oh, that we should be so fortunate! LOL

[Heir of Salvation]

Continue to justify someone being a drunkard and serving your drunkard savior.

I'll continue to preach the true Christ.

Translation:...................."I've got nothing."

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The Word of God is biased against alcohol.

 

But you don't care what the Word of God says, do you?

[JerryNumbers]

...and yet, the Puritans (who would perceive any modern I.F.B. liberal by comparison).....would disagree with you about alcohol.  Ditto the Saintly Pilgrims.  Hmmm.   So, I suppose from the perspective of the Puritans the abstinence saints are liberals?  And they often thought of the KJV as a "M.V." often refusing to let go their beloved Geneva's. 

 

There are some people who cannot help but view the entire history of Planet Earth through the lens of their own part of the world and in their own generation, creating a very myopic perception........Dunno if any of them are denizens of this board or not.

 

Its not about what the Puritans believes, its all about what God teaches us in the Bible. Take notice of this verse.

 

Mr 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

Its all about denying self, bearing your cross, following Jesus, it does not say follow the Puritans.

 

Your post proves only one thing, you had rater follow traditions of men more than the commandments of God.

[Heir of Salvation]

The Word of God is biased against alcohol.

 

But you don't care what the Word of God says, do you?

Translation:..."I've got nothing".

[Heir of Salvation]

Its not about what the Puritans believes, its all about what God teaches us in the Bible. Take notice of this verse.

 

Mr 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

Its all about denying self, bearing your cross, following Jesus, it does not say follow the Puritans.

 

Your post proves only one thing, you had rater follow traditions of men more than the commandments of God.

That gem was used about 4 pages ago......but, thanks anyway.

[Heir of Salvation]

You gave up soda as sin?  In nursing class, I had a teacher tell the class that, in comparisson, 1 can of soda is harder on the body than 1 can of beer or glass of wine.  I have heard people stick to their guns and say smoking is sin because it hurts the body, meanwhile they are well over weight and guzzling soda.  It seemed hypocritical to me. My hats off to you for giving up soda.  That stuff is bad news.  I have a few bottles of Dew left here at work, but when they are gone, I plan on doing the same thing and giving it up. 

Good for you.......those sodas will kill you as quick or quicker than smokes or booze will!

 

That stuff is down-right DEADLY...........but, most I.F.B's like them, so.......they aren't against it.  They don't actually LIKE smokes or booze, so........they are against them...but most like the sodas and candies, so you won't hear them preached against most of the time.

Sodas will down you TWICE as quick as any other vice will.  Just listened to a 300 lb. bloated (now diabetic) I.F.B. evangelist scream incessantly about smoking about 1 month ago!!!! He made Chris Christie look like Michael Johnson or Usain Bolt.......he had the I.F.B. Church on TENTERHOOKS!!!  I happen to know that his fat bloated bum got $2,200 for his rantings that week LOL. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Translation:..."I've got nothing".

You are absolutely correct.  Following your drunkard Jesus, you have nothing.

[JerryNumbers]

You posted this as if you sing it because you feel you have surrendered all.  Have you surrendered all?  "world-ly pleasures all for-sak-en"  Do you have a house or a place to lay your head?  You have stated you are in your 60's, ever have a retirement account?  Besides the Scriptures clearly forbidding it (retirement account), I would say retirement is a worldly pleasure. 

I do not drink and believe the Scriptures instruct us to focus on being filled with the Spirit rather than drinking, do I need to change my mind or beliefs because I won't call it sin?  Am I not allowed in the IFB club now?

 

I love it when people make such accusations as you do, Why?

 

Because the only defense they have is to tear down the other person, you feel in doing that it will make you look good before the others reading this topic while making me look like a hypocrite.

 

NO, no where on this forum in the  25,015 posts I've made up to this time will you find the word by me saying, "I Have Surrender All," yet if you search those 25,015 posts you will find post that I made saying & admiring that "I come way to short of the glory of God."

 

And lastly, you need to stop predicting what someone feels when they post on this board, for its only God who can read the heart or man & your not God.

 

You need to stop the drinking & defending drinking, for it makes for a very bad influence & witness for our Lord & Savior & stop trying to read the hearts of those you disagree.