Interesting Script from "End of the Harvest"

[Standing Firm In Christ]

In the movie, End of the Harvest, David White's character, Matt, stands before a psychology class and presents the following dialogue (written by Rich Christiano and not Jeffrey Bartell):

A college student named Jeffery Bartell wrote a paper in 1949. He concluded that the time immediately preceding the prophesied return of Jesus Christ had begun.

The scriptures make it clear that no one knows the day or the hour of Christ’s return. But the Bible does say that we can know the times and seasons surrounding His coming. Never before have the conditions been possible for so much of endtime Bible prophecy to be fulfilled as today. You may be thinking, “…so, because disease and immorality are running rampant, and because there are wars and rumors of wars, and that we have had a few more earthquakes, that Jesus is coming back soon? We’ve heard all that before.”

To Bartell, the Bible is the greatest book ever written. Its message is so simple that it could be summed up in just a few verses. Yet at the same time, it’s a book with so much depth, that you could study it a lifetime, and still not understand all its truth. Bartell’s theory about the endtime started when he read a verse in Isaiah chapter 46. It says that God declares the end from the beginning. A similar passage is found in Isaiah chapter 48. This lead Bartell back to the beginning, to the book of Genesis and the creation story. As he studied the first chapter, he began to wonder why God took six days to create the world, and rest on the seventh. Why would he take six days when he could have created the world in one second, in the blink of an eye?

Bartell studied the words “day” and “days” in the Bible. He discovered some interesting passages that related to this. He concluded that perhaps God was indicating to us how much time man would have on the earth.

Bartell makes the point that the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, is full of foreshadowing. An event that actually happened in history, also pictures something coming in the future. An example would be when Abraham was going to sacrifice his son Isaac. That event actually happened, and it was also a picture of what God would do with his son Jesus on the cross, as an offering for the sins of the world. Now, why would God take six days to create the world? Is this a picture of something that we need to know? Bartel thinks it is.

In 2nd Peter 3:8, the context is referring to the second coming of Christ. The Bible says that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day. In Psalms 90 it says that a thousand years in God’s sight are but as yesterday. So, could it be that the six days of creation were to indicate to us, the time man would have on this Earth would be about six thousand years? …The seventh day of rest picturing the thousand year millennial reign, when Christ comes back to set up his Earthly kingdom. The time of righteousness and peace.

Bartell documents in his paper how Bible scholars have calculated from the first man, Adam, to the first coming of Jesus to be about four thousand years. If that’s the case, then we could be living right at the end of what the New Testament calls “the last days”.

Bartell makes a big issue about how God deals with time in the Bible. When God measures time, He does so by sevens. God created the world in seven days, with the seventh day being a day of rest. According to the Old Testament law, the Jews were commanded to rest every seven days. The seventh week after the Passover, they celebrated a big feast of rest. The seventh month was perhaps the most important when they celebrated three of their biggest feasts of rest. Every seventh year was a year of rest for the land. Every 49 years, seven times seven, they celebrated the year of Jubilee, which is a year of rest for the land and liberty for the people.

So it made sense to Bartell that God would set up a seven thousand year period for man to occupy the Earth; with the last thousand years being a time of rest when Jesus comes back to set up His Earthly kingdom, as spoken of in Revelation chapter 20. Bartell was right when he says that when God deals with time, He does so by sevens. There’s no other more predominant system in the word of God. The second coming of Christ is the most important day on God’s calendar. Bartell was convinced that He wants us to know about it, including the timing.

Hosea was a prophet in the Old Testament. In chapter six of that book, Hosea talks about Israel, God’s chosen nation who was always rejecting God. The nation was going to be torn apart, but verse two says: “After two days will He revive us: in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.” What does this mean? When Jesus came, Israel rejected Him as their messiah, so God scattered the nation of Israel all over the world. For 1900 years there was no nation of Israel, but God says that after two days, or two thousand years, “I will revive thee, and you, Israel, will live in my sight.”

The scattered Israel became a nation again in the year 1948. This is important because God is reviving the nation of Israel and they are about to live in His sight, when Jesus comes back to set up His Earthly kingdom. Have you ever met a Canaanite? How about an Amorite? No. Because these were Israel’s enemies and they have not been preserved. The Jews have been preserved because they are God’s chosen people, and He must fulfill and keep the promises He made to them. But the Jews are still rejecting Christ. For how long? “After two days (or two thousand years) I will revive thee, and in the third day you shall live in my sight.” The second-coming events are about to begin.

Bartell sees the same foreshadowing in Exodus chapter 19:11. God told Israel to clean up and wait for two days. The third day I’m coming down in the sight of all the nation.

In John chapter 11, Lazarus, a Jew, has died. Jesus waits two days before raising him from the dead. Why? Bartell says this pictures how God is about to turn his back on Israel for the next two thousand years (or two days), and start reaching out to the rest of the world through the New Testament church; which He did.

God didn’t just throw that stuff in the Bible to waste space. Maybe Bartell is right, maybe God is trying to tell us something. Bartell points out that in Matthew chapter 17:1 that Jesus takes Peter, James and John up to the mountain, apart from the rest of the group. What, you ask, happens up there? Jesus is transfigured before them, and they are given a preview of His second coming glory. Now, the first words of that line in scripture are “after six days”. Why did God throw this in? Is He just wasting space again, or is God perhaps trying to tell us something that we need to know?

Remember, the time from Adam to Christ is 4 thousand years (or four days). The time of the church period is two thousand years (or two days). So could this mean that after six thousand years (or six days) God would revive Israel and fulfill the promises he made to them? Now, either Bartell is reading too much between the lines, or God is trying to tell us something.

What He is trying to tell us is, the kingdom of God is about to begin; the day of rest (or one thousand years). The resurrected believers, and the believers who are alive when Jesus returns, will reign as kings and priests on Earth (Revelation 5:10).

While this is just a movie script, I find it very compelling.

[Invicta]

That was Jewish teaching. 2,000 years to the law, 2,000 years of the law, 2,000 years of the Messiah.

In John chapter 11, Lazarus, a Jew, has died. Jesus waits two days before raising him from the dead. Why? Bartell says this pictures how God is about to turn his back on Israel for the next two thousand years (or two days), and start reaching out to the rest of the world through the New Testament church; which He did.

Lazarus had been dead four days.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Lazarus had been dead 4 days, yes. But the Word of God specifically states that Jesus waited 2 days. Now, that tells me it took Him 2 days to arrive in Bethany, for Jesus told His Disciples after waiting two days that Lazarus was dead and Mary and Martha said after Jesus arrived that Lazarus had been dead four days.

This means Lazarus must have died the same day the messenger told Jesus that Lazarus was sick.

[Invicta]

I think it dangerous to base a doctrine on something like that, I suggest you concentrate on Martha's comments on "the last day"

[Salyan]

I remember reading that same idea about 6000 years before the rapture/tribulation/millenium before the year 2000. (The year 2000, of course, being the 'obvious' date for the end of the 6000 years and beginning of the next millenium.) That 'prophecy' frightened me at the time - and ultimately proved wrong.

The problem with ideas like this is that they ignore the fact the the return of Christ is imminent - and has been since He left. If God had left a 'schedule of prophecy' in place that required two millenia to pass before Christ could return again - His return would not have been imminent for the disciples. Or the early church. Or the Waldenses. Or any other Christians throughout history that we could name. Christ's imminent return means that nothing had to be fulfilled and no calendars had to be completed between Pentecost and His Second Coming.

"And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."
Acts 1:7

Jesus said that it is not for us to know the times or the seasons - where did we Christians get the idea that we can know them? Edited March 22, 2012 by salyan

[Standing Firm In Christ]

It was not given for the Disciples to know the times nor the seasons. Jesus said "for you". He was speaking to the Disciples at the time.

But later, it was written that we would see certain signs; men lovers of selves, proud, without natural affection, etc..

We certainly can see that we are living in the last days, and if is interesting that those things written in the script do line up with historical and future events in a remarkable way.

[Covenanter]

"Barnabas" writing about the year 100 had the same idea:

Barnabas 15:1
Moreover concerning the Sabbath likewise it is written in the Ten
Words, in which He spake to Moses face to face on Mount Sinai; And
ye shall hallow the Sabbath of the Lord with pure hands and with a
pure heart.

Barnabas 15:2
And in another place He saith; If my sons observe the Sabbath then
I will bestow My mercy upon them.

Barnabas 15:3
Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And
God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the
seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it.

Barnabas 15:4
Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He
meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all
things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years;
and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of
the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six
days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end.


Barnabas 15:5
And He rested on the seventh day. this He meaneth; when His Son
shall come, and shall abolish the time of the Lawless One, and shall
judge the ungodly, and shall change the sun and the moon and the
stars, then shall he truly rest on the seventh day.

Barnabas 15:6
Yea and furthermore He saith; Thou shalt hallow it with pure hands
and with a pure heart. If therefore a man is able now to hallow
the day which God hallowed, though he be pure in heart, we have gone
utterly astray.

Barnabas 15:7
But if after all then and not till then shall we truly rest and
hallow it, when we shall ourselves be able to do so after being
justified and receiving the promise, when iniquity is no more and all
things have been made new by the Lord, we shall be able to hallow it
then, because we ourselves shall have been hallowed first.

Barnabas 15:8
Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot
away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present
Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have
made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make
the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another
world.

Barnabas 15:9
Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which
also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended
into the heavens.

I don't think the signs in Mat. 24 (or 2 Tim. 3 where Timothy was told how to live in perilous times.) can be interpreted that way - when do the Israelis - them which be in Judaea - flee into the mountains? And about the wars, earthquakes, etc, Jesus says, "all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

No. Jesus gives a general warning that we should be serving him, always ready for his sudden appearance. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

[Eric Stahl]

I remember reading that same idea about 6000 years before the rapture/tribulation/millenium before the year 2000. (The year 2000, of course, being the 'obvious' date for the end of the 6000 years and beginning of the next millenium.) That 'prophecy' frightened me at the time - and ultimately proved wrong.

The problem with ideas like this is that they ignore the fact the the return of Christ is imminent - and has been since He left. If God had left a 'schedule of prophecy' in place that required two millenia to pass before Christ could return again - His return would not have been imminent for the disciples. Or the early church. Or the Waldenses. Or any other Christians throughout history that we could name. Christ's imminent return means that nothing had to be fulfilled and no calendars had to be completed between Pentecost and His Second Coming.


Jesus said that it is not for us to know the times or the seasons - where did we Christians get the idea that we can know them?

Hosea 5:14–15 KJV
14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hosea 6:1–3 KJV
1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

As the end of Hosea’s two days (or two thousand years) nears, the Lord has brought you back into the land of Israel. In about 1982, the latter rain and snows came back. The rain is a sign that the Lord is coming soon. Israel is about to experience the judgment by fire and the returning to the Lord. You will live in His sight in the third day, or third thousand-year time period, which we call the kingdom age. If the third day is a thousand years long, the first two days should be two thousand years long!

[Covenanter]

Hosea 5:14–15 KJV
14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hosea 6:1–3 KJV
1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

As the end of Hosea’s two days (or two thousand years) nears, the Lord has brought you back into the land of Israel. In about 1982, the latter rain and snows came back. The rain is a sign that the Lord is coming soon. Israel is about to experience the judgment by fire and the returning to the Lord. You will live in His sight in the third day, or third thousand-year time period, which we call the kingdom age. If the third day is a thousand years long, the first two days should be two thousand years long!

Read on in Hosea:

4

O Ephraim, what shall I do u

nt

o thee? O Judah, what shall I do u

nt

o thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.

5

Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgme

nt

s are as the light that goeth forth.

6

For I desired mercy, and n

ot

sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than bur

nt

offerings.

7

But they like men have transgressed the covena

nt

: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

Hosea is prophesying while both kingdoms were still in existence. The history of Israel, from Judges through the kingdoms, is a cycle of apostasy, judgement & repentance. Imposing a 2,000 year meaning for 2 days is totally unjustified.

You disps claim to interpret Scripture literally. It is very clear you do not - you impose a disp paradigm on all Scripture, while refusing to read it as written, as understood in context, & as applied by Jesus & his Apostles.

[Eric Stahl]

Read on in Hosea:

4

O Ephraim, what shall I do u

nt

o thee? O Judah, what shall I do u

nt

o thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.

5

Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgme

nt

s are as the light that goeth forth.

6

For I desired mercy, and n

ot

sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than bur

nt

offerings.

7

But they like men have transgressed the covena

nt

: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

Hosea is prophesying while both kingdoms were still in existence. The history of Israel, from Judges through the kingdoms, is a cycle of apostasy, judgement & repentance. Imposing a 2,000 year meaning for 2 days is totally unjustified.

You disps claim to interpret Scripture literally. It is very clear you do not - you impose a disp paradigm on all Scripture, while refusing to read it as written, as understood in context, & as applied by Jesus & his Apostles.

Covenanter,
Do you believe Jesus will rule earth for 1000 years during the day of the Lord? If not, how long and when do you believe He will rule as King?

[Covenanter]

Covenanter,
Do you believe Jesus will rule earth for 1000 years during the day of the Lord? If not, how long and when do you believe He will rule as King?

I believe Jesus is presently reigning - King of kings & Lord of lords.

In Rev. 20 the 1,000 year reign, John sees the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. These are dead believers - they've experienced the first resurrection - conversion (John 5:24 ff) - and are awaiting the bodily resurrection. (1 Thes. 4)

Christ is reigning now, during the present "millennium" with his saints in glory. The concept of a future millennium, where Jesus again lives on earth with the ungodly, & presides over a temple where animal sacrifices for sin are offered acceptably is totally foreign to the NT. As for his glorious reign on earth being such a failure that the whole population turn against him - it's a monstrous lie.

[Salyan]

It was not given for the Disciples to know the times nor the seasons. Jesus said "for you". He was speaking to the Disciples at the time.

But later, it was written that we would see certain signs; men lovers of selves, proud, without natural affection, etc..

2 Timothy 3:1-5
“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”

If I’m going to use your own logic on you, Paul was here talking to Timothy. (2 Tim. 1:2; 3:10,15) Thus we should not apply this verse to ourselves since he was speaking to that man at that time…

But we do apply this verse to ourselves. We look to these examples of reprobate mankind as a sign of the last days. But wait – it says “from such turn away.” Who is to turn away? Us, of course. But also – who was this talking to? Timothy was being told to turn away from such men. Perhaps these ‘last days’ had already begun in his time…? If he could see such signs in his day – we can definitely see such times in our day. But it’s nothing that hasn’t been around for the past 2000 years.

Seeing as we do apply these verses to ourselves as well, let’s go back to my original post. Just as the Holy Spirit also fills us, and we are to be witnesses to the uttermost parts of the earth (I’m sure you’ve heard sermons applying this to ‘our’ Jerusalem and Judea, as I have.), so it may also not be for us to know the times or seasons. Edited March 23, 2012 by salyan

[Salyan]

Hosea 6:1–3 KJV
1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

As the end of Hosea’s two days (or two thousand years) nears, the Lord has brought you back into the land of Israel. In about 1982, the latter rain and snows came back. The rain is a sign that the Lord is coming soon. Israel is about to experience the judgment by fire and the returning to the Lord. You will live in His sight in the third day, or third thousand-year time period, which we call the kingdom age. If the third day is a thousand years long, the first two days should be two thousand years long!

If the third day is a thousand years long – but how do we know that it is? God is outside time – thus a day to us may be a thousand years to Him or vice versa – but time still exists for us. This could be referring to the millennium - but it could just be referring to 3 literal days. This same logic tries to prove a long-age creation – and that just doesn’t work! The first verse quote here talks of Israel returning to the Lord – before any talk of days or later rain. Has Israel yet returned to their Lord? Besides, Hosea at least 750 years before Christ, right? So 2000 years from then counts to 1250. I don’t remember anything special happening with Israel then… Edited March 23, 2012 by salyan

[Salyan]

Christ is reigning now, during the present "millennium" with his saints in glory. The concept of a future millennium, where Jesus again lives on earth with the ungodly, & presides over a temple where animal sacrifices for sin are offered acceptably is totally foreign to the NT. As for his glorious reign on earth being such a failure that the whole population turn against him - it's a monstrous lie.

It's not that his reign is so monstrous that people turn against Him for that reason. During the millennium, children will be born and grow up (one reason it cannot be a current reign in heaven). Those children will grow up under His righteous rule - but all mankind is given a choice whether to submit to Christ or not. At the end of those years, Satan will be loosed to deceive once more. Those children born during the millennium will now have a clear choice - to continue following Christ as their King, or to follow the deceiver. Many will choose to follow Satan, and that will be the basis of that rebellion. Thus proving that fallen mankind, even when living in a near-perfect world under the direct leadership of Christ Himself, will still oft choose to follow Satan rather than our Lord. Edited March 23, 2012 by salyan

[Covenanter]

So 2000 years from then counts to 1250. I don’t remember anything special happening with Israel then…

Tongue in cheek ...
If we count the millennium from when the Jewish Christians fled from the city we get to 1066 which was a very significant year when William the antichrist invaded & terrorized England. Edited March 23, 2012 by Covenanter