Repentance - Biblical Viewpoint

[LindaR]

Ahh, KJV1611, she did answer your question, seems you need an examination by your betters you reprobate! But then I am also a reprobate then and happy to be one under these conditions!!
,

I think you need to read that verse again...very carefully. It says EXAMINE YOURSELVES, PROVE YOUR OWN SELVES, not get examined by your "betters" (whatever you mean by that, I have no clue). If you are a reprobate, you have "failed to pass the test/examination. Still believe you are a reprobate ,,,taking that verse in its proper context.? Edited November 11, 2011 by LindaR

[John81]

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." - 1 John 2:4



The moment I saw my daughter's little body on the ultrasound I was cured of my unbelief in 2001. However, it was not until 2007 that I repented and put my trust in Christ. I was biblically saved in 2007, not 2001.

These fellas are putting forth a modern-charismatic, seeker-sensitive, gospel. This is what they teach at Calvary Chapel and other Laodicean churches. This is not what Spurgeon or John R. Rice taught.

I was at a fellowship with about 15 IFB Pastors from across Florida today, none that preached holds to the "believe only" salvation method. About half have been preaching the Word of God for over 30 years, including my pastor.

True. We have so many today who prefer Burger King Christianity so they can have it their own way.

[KJV1611]

I have posted verse after verse showing the biblical definition of repentance. I have posted verse after verse showing that the Bible says to BELIEVE for salvation and NOTHING else.

Not one verse has been posted proving that repentance for salvation is anything other than turning from unbelief to belief. Plenty have been posted with peoples OPINIONS that it means turn from sin, but not one actually SAYS it.

The change happens after salvation, NOT before.

Linda, I believe you are very close to believing the same as what scripture teaches on repentance, but I think your logic is circular. You are saying the believer is eternally saved, yet cannot live as he wants and goto heaven. Circular logic that doesnt make sense. I think what you MEAN is that he will have a DESIRE to live a different life because God saved him. This does NOT always mean he will follow that desire though. A saved person can feed the flesh more than the spirit and live a carnal life and is just as saved as someone living a victorious Christian life.

Swathdiver, you posted a verse about "keeping God's commandments" as if that is what saves a soul. When a person believes on Christ, they have fullfilled ALL of the LAW because Christ takes their place as a perfect substitute. He is the end of the law to all them that believe.

John81, You quoted that "and that repentance and remissions of sins should be preached" - Turning from unbelief to believing on Christ DOES give remissions of sins. Turning from sinning to not sinning does not. Instead of inserting a preconceived definition into the word repent, use a biblical definition. If salvation is by believing, and remission of sins is by believing, then the only thing you could repent (turn from) to be saved would be your UNBELIEF.

StandingFirmInChrist, you posted "Any person that believes that he or she can continue in sin and still be saved is only fooling himself." The bible CLEARLY teaches it is all FAITH apart from works. That means good living is not a part of salvation. FAITH alone. By your own words here in many of your posts it is very evident you believe in a faith PLUS works based salvation. I hope you will actually take the time to read over all of the verses I have posted from the scripture on ONLY believing. If you believe faith plus works, you cannot be saved.

2Tim215, I appreciate the support. It's always nice to find a like-minded person to talk with.

My goal of posting this thread was not to stir up controversy, but to clear up confusion. There is much confusion on the issue, and its because of a preconceived idea of what repentance is. Many are now turning to a faith plus works salvation and to lordship salvation....all of which ultimately lead to hell.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

KJV1611, what part of "How can we that are dead to sin live any longer therein" do you not understand?

The one who is saved is dead to sin. He has no desire to sin whatsoever. His desire is to serve Christ. Does that one that is dead to sin cease to sin? Of course not! Paul said that the evil that he would not, he found himself doing. Did you catch that? Paul did not want to do evil. He had no desire to live any way his flesh desired to live because Paul knew that in his flesh dwelt no good thing.

But because of the weakness of the flesh, Paul found himself doing that which he did not want to do. But even so, he did not continue in sin because he was dead to sin.

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the ends thereof are the way of death. When one professes to be a child of God, and that one has the mindset that he or she can live as they please, contrary to the Word, that one proves that although they professed Christ they do not possess Christ. A good tree cannot bear evil fruit. By their fruits you will know them.

Your theology is that one needn't turn from sin, but the Word of God reveals that if one continue in sin that one is not saved.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

StandingFirmInChrist' date=' you posted "Any person that believes that he or she can continue in sin and still be saved is only fooling himself." The bible CLEARLY teaches it is all FAITH apart from works. That means good living is not a part of salvation. FAITH alone. By your own words here in many of your posts it is very evident you believe in a faith PLUS works based salvation. I hope you will actually take the time to read over all of the verses I have posted from the scripture on ONLY believing. If you believe faith plus works, you cannot be saved.[/quote']

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

If you say you have faith but there are no works, your faith is a dead faith. You have a profession, but not possession.

[LindaR]

I have posted verse after verse showing the biblical definition of repentance. I have posted verse after verse showing that the Bible says to BELIEVE for salvation and NOTHING else.

Not one verse has been posted proving that repentance for salvation is anything other than turning from unbelief to belief. Plenty have been posted with peoples OPINIONS that it means turn from sin, but not one actually SAYS it.

The change happens after salvation, NOT before.

Linda, I believe you are very close to believing the same as what scripture teaches on repentance, but I think your logic is circular. You are saying the believer is eternally saved, yet cannot live as he wants and goto heaven. Circular logic that doesnt make sense. I think what you MEAN is that he will have a DESIRE to live a different life because God saved him. This does NOT always mean he will follow that desire though. A saved person can feed the flesh more than the spirit and live a carnal life and is just as saved as someone living a victorious Christian life.

You have no idea what I think...so stop with the assumptions, ok?

I believe the same as my husband (Standing Firm In Christ) about repentance and faith. When a person professes Christ and says he/she is saved, that person ACTS and BEHAVES as a saved person. That person is DEAD to sin (Romans 6). The first two verses of Romans 6 pretty much states that a person who is saved WILL NOT CONTINUE IN SIN THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Salvation is NOT a license to sin (or live as you please). Eternal security does not promote careless living. If a saved person is continually "pleasing the flesh", sooner or later the Holy Spirit will convict that person of this through chastisement (Hebrews 12:6-8). If there is no Holy Spirit conviction of sin and no chastisement, then that person needs to examine himself/herself according to the exhortation in 2 Corinthians 13:5-7. That person probably does not possess SAVING faith.

Repentance is NOT a work...and just because you teach otherwise, doesn't change the truth. If there is NO turning FROM sin (I'm not speaking of any particular sin, I'm speaking of a sinful lifestyle) and turning TO God in faith and trusting the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ on the Cross of Calvary, then whatever faith you have is DEAD faith (James 2:17 & 20), not saving faith. Repentance produces SAVING faith.

Telling a person that he/she can "live as they please" and still go to heaven and all they need to do is "turn from unbelief to belief in Christ" is a very dangerous teaching. It will give that person a false assurance of salvation. Instead of going to heaven, that person will find himself/herself in hell. That would be very sad indeed.

You make "living as you please" an okie dokie lifestyle that is pleasing to God. Wouldn't it be better to "walk in the Spirit" rather than "fulfill the lusts of the flesh"?

[2Tim215]

KJV1611, what part of "How can we that are dead to sin live any longer therein" do you not understand?

The one who is saved is dead to sin. He has no desire to sin whatsoever. His desire is to serve Christ. Does that one that is dead to sin cease to sin? Of course not! Paul said that the evil that he would not, he found himself doing. Did you catch that? Paul did not want to do evil. He had no desire to live any way his flesh desired to live because Paul knew that in his flesh dwelt no good thing.

But because of the weakness of the flesh, Paul found himself doing that which he did not want to do. But even so, he did not continue in sin because he was dead to sin.

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the ends thereof are the way of death. When one professes to be a child of God, and that one has the mindset that he or she can live as they please, contrary to the Word, that one proves that although they professed Christ they do not possess Christ. A good tree cannot bear evil fruit. By their fruits you will know them.

Your theology is that one needn't turn from sin, but the Word of God reveals that if one continue in sin that one is not saved.

And your theology and that of those in disagreement seem to state that all "saved" people in your doctrine live holy lives in perfect obedience IE: sinless perfection!! What part of "1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." do you not understand? and if at any time you or any one for that matter has had a evil thought is then guilty of the whole law - Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Have any one of you ever done anything that was not good after "repentance"? So explain then - Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. From the tone of some of the comments there are some that are respecter of persons here so explain Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. So according to the Word of God you are ALL guilty of sin after your "repentance" and as such according to your theology and doctrine are destined to hell!!

So let me answer your question concerning: Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? You should read the whole chapter 6 you quoted and the do a study of the book Romans and not take a verse out of context. Because Paul goes on to say - Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. and then to say - Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. And right throughout the chapter he explains that we are now "spiritually" dead to sin - that is why we are "born again". Though we still have to live in this flesh that is under the law - we (our spirit and soul) is free through Christ. That our inward man delights in the law of God but the flesh strives against it in sin.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

That we who are in Christ are dead to sin and it no longer has dominion over us in the sense that we now can refuse to give in to it
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
That we must not let it rule us
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Because we are under grace
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
And as such have eternal life
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And that there is now no condemnation to those in Christ even though Paul in the flesh served sin yet served the Lord with the mind
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
And the the beginning of chapter 8 goes on to explain how now that we are dead to sin through Christ can and must now subjugate sin in the flesh and not let it rules us, though we still live in the flesh and at times will fall, we are no longer condemned by it.

Not once did I say that someone with a mindset that they can do as the pleased is saved or unsaved. My argument has always been: Who gives YOU or anyone else the right to judge someone that has been dragged down by life or habitual sin and categorize them as unsaved and going to hell only because what you see from there outward man is sin and have no idea the war within. Only God knows who is and isn't saved.

Quick to condemn, quick to judge and quick to use one or two scriptures and not the entire message in context to support a viewpoint.

Need I say more. I think not and rest my case.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

To teach that one does not have to repent of one's sins is a damnable heresy. It is telling that person that he or she can live the life of a serial killer and be ensured of going to heaven. It is telling one that he or she can live the life of a thief and still have eternal life in Christ. It is telling one that he or she can st at the table of the Lord while drinking of the cup of devils.

It is not teaching Salvation at all, but rather teaching a condoning of sin.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

And your theology and that of those in disagreement seem to state that all "saved" people in your doctrine live holy lives in perfect obedience IE: sinless perfection!! What part of "1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." do you not understand? and if at any time you or any one for that matter has had a evil thought is then guilty of the whole law - Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Have any one of you ever done anything that was not good after "repentance"? So explain then - Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. From the tone of some of the comments there are some that are respecter of persons here so explain Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. So according to the Word of God you are ALL guilty of sin after your "repentance" and as such according to your theology and doctrine are destined to hell!!

So let me answer your question concerning: Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? You should read the whole chapter 6 you quoted and the do a study of the book Romans and not take a verse out of context. Because Paul goes on to say - Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. and then to say - Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. And right throughout the chapter he explains that we are now "spiritually" dead to sin - that is why we are "born again". Though we still have to live in this flesh that is under the law - we (our spirit and soul) is free through Christ. That our inward man delights in the law of God but the flesh strives against it in sin.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

That we who are in Christ are dead to sin and it no longer has dominion over us in the sense that we now can refuse to give in to it
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
That we must not let it rule us
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Because we are under grace
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
And as such have eternal life
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And that there is now no condemnation to those in Christ even though Paul in the flesh served sin yet served the Lord with the mind
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
And the the beginning of chapter 8 goes on to explain how now that we are dead to sin through Christ can and must now subjugate sin in the flesh and not let it rules us, though we still live in the flesh and at times will fall, we are no longer condemned by it.

Not once did I say that someone with a mindset that they can do as the pleased is saved or unsaved. My argument has always been: Who gives YOU or anyone else the right to judge someone that has been dragged down by life or habitual sin and categorize them as unsaved and going to hell only because what you see from there outward man is sin and have no idea the war within. Only God knows who is and isn't saved.

Quick to condemn, quick to judge and quick to use one or two scriptures and not the entire message in context to support a viewpoint.

Need I say more. I think not and rest my case.

If that's your defense, it will fail miserably when you stand before God.

I can hear it now. Lord, Lord, didn't I believe in you?

Yes, but you lived a sinful lifestyle. You lived no different than the world. You taught others that they did not have to turn from their sin and that lead them down the path of destruction and ultimately to hell.

AND YOU THINK HE'LL BE PLEASED?

[KJV1611]

If that's your defense, it will fail miserably when you stand before God.

I can hear it now. Lord, Lord, didn't I believe in you?

Yes, but you lived a sinful lifestyle. You lived no different than the world. You taught others that they did not have to turn from their sin and that lead them down the path of destruction and ultimately to hell.

AND YOU THINK HE'LL BE PLEASED?

No one that believes in Jesus Christ will goto hell.

It's those that say "Lord, Lord, have we not done many wonderful WORKS in thy name" that will goto hell.

Just because I believe it is ALL faith does not mean I teach that you should live a sinful lifestyle. Nor if you have read any of what I have said would you get that idea. I said a Christian SHOULD live for Christ, and is rewarded for doing so. BUT it is NOT a requirement of salvation. To make it requirement is to teach faith PLUS works.

Keep in mind that the word repent JUST MEANS TO TURN.

Yet every time you mention it you add "FROM sins"

God REPENTED, yet he did not turn from sins. Why do you cling to the idea that everywhere you see the word repent it means turn from sins?

Also, repent is a 180 degree turn, yet EVERY time you use it, you are saying turn from sins to God. That is not a 180 degree turn. A 180 degree turn from sins is to NOT sin. Which is works.

Repent does NOT mean turn from sin, it simply means to turn. It is not just a turn, it is a 180 degree turn from one opposite to the other.

God can repent. Is he turning from sin like you like to add to every verse you see the word in? Edited November 12, 2011 by KJV1611

[Standing Firm In Christ]

There are many that believe in Jesus Christ that will be in hell. Jesus said He will turn away many that did many wonderful works in His name. They are not going to hell because of works. The Apostle James told us the importance of works when he said "Faith without works is dead being alone."


You need to rethink your theology, because it is contrary to sound Biblical doctrine.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If one does not turn from sin, one will die in that sin... lost. Whether that one made a profession of faith or not.

[KJV1611]

If one does not turn from sin, one will die in that sin... lost. Whether that one made a profession of faith or not.

The way of salvation as defined by the Bible is to BELIEVE plus nothing, minus nothing.

To make things crystal clear. Define REPENT as simply as you can in your own words. Edited November 12, 2011 by KJV1611

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The way of salvation as defined by the Bible is to BELIEVE plus nothing, minus nothing.

To make things crystal clear. Define REPENT as simply as you can in your own words.

It is more than 'Believe.' If works do not follow, that belief was in vain... it was dead.

Go to a bar and observe drunks, or to the ghetto and observe drunks. They will talk to you about Jesus, they will tell you that they believe Jesus died on the cross and rose again the third day. My oldest brother would tell me that when he was drunk. If he did not believe it, he would not repeat it. If he did not believe Jesus died on the cross and rose again, he would have denied that it ever happened.

Are you telling me that my brother, because he believed Jesus died on the cross, was saved?

[LindaR]

REPENT: To repent is to turn FROM a sinful lifestyle by the convicting power of the Holy Spirit and the grace of God and to turn TO God in faith trusting in the once-for-all sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross of Calvary for the forgiveness of sin. True biblical repentance is a change of mind toward God and sin that resultsin a change of life. Repentance is not turning from ALL sin...therefore it is NOT becoming sinlessly perfect. It WILL however, change the desire of that sinner NOT to "live as he/she pleases" and to no longer desire to walk in rebellion against God.

Note to 2Tim215...I would appreciate you not using so much bold red font. I just had cataract surgery and I also have glaucoma and that red is killing my eyes. Would appreciate it if you would simply use black bold font to emphasize rather than the bold red. Thanks.

Edited November 12, 2011 by LindaR