Repentance - Biblical Viewpoint

[KJV1611]

First and foremost, you are bearing false witness against SFIC. I know for a fact that the Holy Bible is the only Book he reads every day. Never heard of the book of 2 Opinions.

After salvation, following and serving Jesus IS a requirement:

Linda,

If you believe you HAVE to live a good life and follow Christ after salvation then you are making it a PART of salvation. Anyone that teaches faith plus works for salvation is LOST.

As far as the book of Opinions, that was me having a little bit of fun with StandingFirm since almost every post he makes is based on his opinion rather than clear scripture that is taken within the context of what it means.


I will make a clear point with StandingFirm where he takes a verse out of context and misuses it, yet he will not ADMIT that he is wrong. Basically, no matter what I say is going to change his OPINION because he cares more about his own philosophy than what the WORD of God so clearly states.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Wilt thou know oh vain man that faith without works is dead?

[LindaR]

Linda,

If you believe you HAVE to live a good life and follow Christ after salvation then you are making it a PART of salvation. Anyone that teaches faith plus works for salvation is LOST.

Now you are saying that I'm not saved because I teach that salvation produces works. The WORKS which is the FRUIT of saving are God-wrought. They are not done BECAUSE anyone MUST do them, but BECAUSE God has produced those WORKS IN the believer. Our DESIRE, because of saving faith, is TOWARDS God. Do you ever get past Ephesians 2:8-9? There is a verse 10 which reads:

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James echoes the same teaching and DOES NOT CONTRADICT Paul:

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Salvation makes a difference...and repentance produces saving faith and saving faith is PROVED through good works (God-wrought). Christ doesn't save a person IN his sins, He saves a person FROM his sins.

As far as the book of Opinions, that was me having a little bit of fun with StandingFirm since almost every post he makes is based on his opinion rather than clear scripture that is taken within the context of what it means.

I will make a clear point with StandingFirm where he takes a verse out of context and misuses it, yet he will not ADMIT that he is wrong. Basically, no matter what I say is going to change his OPINION because he cares more about his own philosophy than what the WORD of God so clearly states.

SFIC does NOT base his posts on his own opinions.

You continue to bear false witness against him every time you accuse him of basing his posts on his opinion. The only thing you have made clear is that you don't agree with the context of Scripture as it is presented by SFIC...Salvation requires repentance...and repentance is not a man-made work...it is NOT Lordship salvation...it is NOT Calvinism, etc. God gives the sinner repentance.

[KJV1611]

Now you are saying that I'm not saved because I teach that salvation produces works. The WORKS which is the FRUIT of saving are God-wrought. They are not done BECAUSE anyone MUST do them, but BECAUSE God has produced those WORKS IN the believer. Our DESIRE, because of saving faith, is TOWARDS God. Do you ever get past Ephesians 2:8-9? There is a verse 10 which reads:

Linda, I am saying you, StandingFirm, and anyone else that teaches you MUST live a "good" Christian life in order to be saved is LOST.

By your OWN words this is what YOU said.

After salvation, following and serving Jesus IS a requirement:

A requirement indicates that it MUST be done or you would lose it. If this is not what you mean, then you need to be a lot more clear in your posts.

Your husband teaches that if you accept Christ, but continue to sin, you are unsaved. That is FAITH plus WORKS.

Any person that believes that he or she can continue in sin and still be saved is only fooling himself.

How much sin is too much after being saved? Do you and your husband think you are living lives of sinless perfection after trusting Christ? Please tell me where the "cutoff" line is saying that I've "sinned too much" after being saved and am now lost.

[LindaR]

Salvation is NOT sinless perfectionism!!!!!!!!!! Neither we, nor anybody else on this board teaches sinless perfectionism. Salvation is NOT a license to live as you please. You have totally twisted what we are saying to justify your "live as you please" salvation...which is NO salvation at all.

Edited November 15, 2011 by LindaR

[Standing Firm In Christ]

It appears that the only reason you signed on this board is to come in with a message of "You're wrong, I'm right".

Well, I have news for you...

"You're wrong, we're right".

[KJV1611]

Salvation is NOT sinless perfectionism!!!!!!!!!! Neither we, nor anybody else on this board teaches sinless perfectionism. Salvation is NOT a license to live as you please. You have totally twisted what we are saying to justify your "live as you please" salvation...which is NO salvation at all.

I have twisted nothing. I have quoted directly from what you said. You said IT IS A REQUIREMENT TO FOLLOW AND LIVE FOR JESUS AFTER SALVATION. Your husband said that if you continue to live in sin after salvation you would not be saved.


Salvation is by FAITH plus nothing, minus nothing. No good works required before or after.
Do you have to turn from sin in order to put faith in Christ? NO.
Do you have to trust Jesus Christ to do all the saving all by himself in order to be saved? YES
Do you HAVE to live right after trusting Christ? No.
SHOULD you live right after trusting Christ? Yes.
Does every Christian choose to live right after trusting Christ? No.
Does this make them any less saved? No.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Let's see now. KJV1611 says we can profess Christ and live as we please, and we are still saved.

God's Word tells us the wages of sin is death.

Apparently KJV1611 thinks death is Salvation.

[LindaR]

I have twisted nothing. I have quoted directly from what you said. You said IT IS A REQUIREMENT TO FOLLOW AND LIVE FOR JESUS AFTER SALVATION. Your husband said that if you continue to live in sin after salvation you would not be saved.

I didn't say that it is a requirement....Jesus said it:

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Salvation is by FAITH plus nothing, minus nothing. No good works required before or after.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Do you have to turn from sin in order to put faith in Christ? NO.

YES! We are not saved IN our sins...but we are saved FROM our sins.

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Are you righteous, or are you a sinner? Scripture says ALL have sinned:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Do you have to trust Jesus Christ to do all the saving all by himself in order to be saved? YES

Faith is the way to become a child of God; (justification)

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (position)
Obedience is the way to walk in fellowship with the Father.(Sanctification)

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Do you HAVE to live right after trusting Christ? No.

YES!

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

SHOULD you live right after trusting Christ? Yes.

If we are to believe what you are teaching, the answer is NO.

Does every Christian choose to live right after trusting Christ? No.

When a person is truly born again of the Spirit of God, that person has no desire to "live as they please". Our sin nature has not been eradicated when we are saved, so we there is a daily struggle with the flesh:

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Does this make them any less saved? No.

Either you are saved or you aren't. There are those who remain (by their own choice) "babes in Christ" (carnal) all their Christian lives. Is this the way the Lord Jesus Christ wants us to live? The answer to that is obvious...NO!

I've been around too many "professers" of Christ to know that "by their fruits ye shall know them"...

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

One cannot just make a "profession" (believe) of faith and continue to live as they please. We MUST acknowledge that we are sinners and TURN FROM that sinful lifestyle (this is NOT sinless perfectionism) and TURN TO Christ in saving faith by trusting in His once-for-all sacrifice on the Cross of Calvary for the forgiveness of sin. God gives repentance. We are either "new creatures in Christ Jesus" or we aren't.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

[KJV1611]

So many things wrong its hard to begin...

[KJV1611]

I didn't say that it is a requirement....Jesus said it:

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

The term "will" means it is a CHOICE to follow Christ and to be his disciple after salvation, not a requirement OF salvation. Now, I agree that you SHOULD, but it is not a requirement, it is to those who WILL. They are no less saved if they end up living as a carnal Christian. I do not promote such behavior because there are consequences to not following Christ, but that person is just as saved as anyone else if they put their faith in Christ.

[KJV1611]

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John was written to saved Christians, and he says IF we walk in the light we have fellowship. Again, IF implies that you can also choose not to walk in the light and the fellowship will be broken, but the soul is still saved.

[KJV1611]

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

What is the will of the Father, Linda? Jesus PLAINLY says what it is in John 6:40

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[KJV1611]

One cannot just make a "profession" (believe) of faith and continue to live as they please. We MUST acknowledge that we are sinners and TURN FROM that sinful lifestyle (this is NOT sinless perfectionism) and TURN TO Christ in saving faith by trusting in His once-for-all sacrifice on the Cross of Calvary for the forgiveness of sin.

By your own words you are putting the change in lifestyle before Faith in Christ. You have it backwards. FIRST one must believe, then God will do the changing. You try to make the sinner change before he accepts CHRIST. You say he must turn from a sinful lifestyle and THEN believe. But the Bible teaches that you BELIEVE and then God will help you turn from your sinful lifestyle!

[KJV1611]

Let's see now. KJV1611 says we can profess Christ and live as we please, and we are still saved.

God's Word tells us the wages of sin is death.

Apparently KJV1611 thinks death is Salvation.

I'm growing tired of having to correct basic Bible doctrine with you "standingfirm". You take almost every single verse out of context and misuse it.

God said to Adam, in the day thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.
When Adam sinned, he died spiritually THAT day and would die physically later. Sin brought death. The wages of sin IS death. Both physically and spiritually.
God did not save our physical bodies when he died for us, but our souls. So the body still dies because of sin. BUT the soul is given life to all those that BELIEVE.
This belief is not predicated on any sort of "merit" of our own, we simply ACCEPT the FREE GIFT through FAITH. No strings attached. A gift is something that is given for free. If you have to live right(works) to get it or keep it, then it is no longer a gift but something earned.

Let's see now. KJV1611 says we can profess Christ and live as we please, and we are still saved.

I am saying that if a person is genuinely saved by trusting Christ, that no matter how they CHOOSE to live afterwards they are STILL saved.
Why? Because salvation is a gift. It is simply ACCEPTED by FAITH. No "living right" is required. None of us would get it anyways if that was a requirement!

Are YOU saying that after being legitimately saved, that if you DO NOT live right you are no longer saved? Because that seems to be what you've been saying all along now.