ARE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS WARMONGERS?

[John81]

If you're asking me about UBL, yes they have. But the Fed is huge with many factions with agendas to promote. Our Statists are serial liars as all statists are, they repeat all kinds of lies as talking points incessantly until it's regarded as truth. Some examples are that America toppled Saddam because he was involved in 9-11, Valeri Plame's cover was broken and a Federal Law was violated, Bush lied about Joe Wilson's trip to Africa and the infamous 16 words. Having said all that I have not seen a credible govt agency say that we did supply UBL with weapons or aid during the Afghan war with the Soviets.

No doubt the government operates upon a bed of lies. On 9-11 the government reported that American fighter jets had been given the green light to shoot down any further planes that were hijacked or that were unresponsive. Later in the day it was reported that fighters were heading towards the hijacked plane heading towards DC. Afterwards VP Cheney stated on TV that American fighters had shot down that plane and it crashed in Penn. It wasn't long after all this the government changed their story saying the plane had not been shot down and they even denied that American fighter jets had been given the green light to shoot down any hijacked planes. When several witnesses were interviewed about what happened and gave details of seeing American fighter jets, of seeing a missle streak across the sky and strike the hijacked plane, the government continued with their denial and said the eyewittnesses were all wrong.

Just how much of what the government says should we believe?

[heartstrings]

No doubt the government operates upon a bed of lies. On 9-11 the government reported that American fighter jets had been given the green light to shoot down any further planes that were hijacked or that were unresponsive. Later in the day it was reported that fighters were heading towards the hijacked plane heading towards DC. Afterwards VP Cheney stated on TV that American fighters had shot down that plane and it crashed in Penn. It wasn't long after all this the government changed their story saying the plane had not been shot down and they even denied that American fighter jets had been given the green light to shoot down any hijacked planes. When several witnesses were interviewed about what happened and gave details of seeing American fighter jets, of seeing a missle streak across the sky and strike the hijacked plane, the government continued with their denial and said the eyewittnesses were all wrong.

Just how much of what the government says should we believe?

Right....only trust those who tell the truth.......

A drill rig crew heard screams coming from the bottom of a hole drilled deep in the earth.
Jacques Cousteau heard screams too when on a deep ocean dive.
"Behemoth" was a dinosaur.
The "eye of a needle" was a really tight city gate which camels had to squeeze under.
A frog won't try to jump out of a slowly warming pot of water; he will just stay there until he boils.
A sheep is the closest to being like a man than any other animal.
A person inherits their blood from their father and their body from their mother.
Blacks were ordained to be slaves because of the curse of Ham.
Ham committed a homosexual act on his father, Noah.
"Touch not mine anointed..." is a warning not to mess with the preacher.
I was once a Navy Seal

[swathdiver]

VP Cheney stated on TV that American fighters had shot down that plane and it crashed in Penn. It wasn't long after all this the government changed their story saying the plane had not been shot down

In this case, what point was served in lying?

[heartstrings]

John, Cheney ADMITED that he gave the order to shoot it down and we all know why, sir. Would YOU like to be in the position to have to make that kind of decision? I'm sure Cheney didn't want to do it. But those fighter pilots were having trouble even FINDING flight 93 even with RADAR because there are hundreds of aircraft in the air over the US at any given time. When you have an emergency of that magnitude on your hands, hundreds of radar blips on the grid, and in the confusion nobody really know what is happening, could it be that they just made a mistake? If they were going to LIE why not lie from the beginning and deny shooting anything down? I mean, if you are going to lie, you try to do it to make yourself look good huh? Does admitting you shot down and kiiled your own citizens make you look good?

[John81]

Right....only trust those who tell the truth.......

A drill rig crew heard screams coming from the bottom of a hole drilled deep in the earth.
Jacques Cousteau heard screams too when on a deep ocean dive.
"Behemoth" was a dinosaur.
The "eye of a needle" was a really tight city gate which camels had to squeeze under.
A frog won't try to jump out of a slowly warming pot of water; he will just stay there until he boils.
A sheep is the closest to being like a man than any other animal.
A person inherits their blood from their father and their body from their mother.
Blacks were ordained to be slaves because of the curse of Ham.
Ham committed a homosexual act on his father, Noah.
"Touch not mine anointed..." is a warning not to mess with the preacher.
I was once a Navy Seal

LOL I've actually not heard of some of those.

[John81]

In this case, what point was served in lying?

I'm not sure, we would have to ask them.

[John81]

John, Cheney ADMITED that he gave the order to shoot it down and we all know why, sir. Would YOU like to be in the position to have to make that kind of decision? I'm sure Cheney didn't want to do it. But those fighter pilots were having trouble even FINDING flight 93 even with RADAR because there are hundreds of aircraft in the air over the US at any given time. When you have an emergency of that magnitude on your hands, hundreds of radar blips on the grid, and in the confusion nobody really know what is happening, could it be that they just made a mistake? If they were going to LIE why not lie from the beginning and deny shooting anything down? I mean, if you are going to lie, you try to do it to make yourself look good huh? Does admitting you shot down and kiiled your own citizens make you look good?

Yes, he originally said all that but then the official story changed and now they say the jet was not shot down. Why lie?

Myself, I have no problem with the idea of a decision being made to shoot down a hijacked plane that will likely be used as a suicide missile. In my mind, that wouldn't even be a tough call. My question is why the lies?

[swathdiver]

Yes, he originally said all that but then the official story changed and now they say the jet was not shot down. Why lie?

Did you ever consider the possibility that VP Cheney honestly believed at the time that after giving the order, the order was carried out, as the plane did not reach its target? Isn't it possible in the fog and immediacy of war that there will be unintentional mis-information? Ten years earlier Sec Def Cheney said that Scott Speicher was killed when his F/A-18 was downed over Iraq during Operation Desert Storm. For years many believed that he was alive and in one of Saddam's prisons as a trophy. However, in 2009 his remains were recovered not far from where the aircraft had crashed in a shallow grave dug by bedouins.

Several months prior I received a frantic call from my best-friend's mom who saw a report on tv that the USS Saratoga had capsized off Israel. I assured her that the "Super Sara" had not turned over, that the media usually got it wrong. Sure enough, a few minutes later the report was clarified that it was an Israeli ferry that had turned over while transporting Saratoga's sailors. This gave her hope but her nerves were calmed the following day with a call from her son saying that he was safe and sound.

[John81]

Did you ever consider the possibility that VP Cheney honestly believed at the time that after giving the order, the order was carried out, as the plane did not reach its target? Isn't it possible in the fog and immediacy of war that there will be unintentional mis-information? Ten years earlier Sec Def Cheney said that Scott Speicher was killed when his F/A-18 was downed over Iraq during Operation Desert Storm. For years many believed that he was alive and in one of Saddam's prisons as a trophy. However, in 2009 his remains were recovered not far from where the aircraft had crashed in a shallow grave dug by bedouins.

Several months prior I received a frantic call from my best-friend's mom who saw a report on tv that the USS Saratoga had capsized off Israel. I assured her that the "Super Sara" had not turned over, that the media usually got it wrong. Sure enough, a few minutes later the report was clarified that it was an Israeli ferry that had turned over while transporting Saratoga's sailors. This gave her hope but her nerves were calmed the following day with a call from her son saying that he was safe and sound.

Now they say not even the order was given. Several eyewitnesses saw fighter jets and several also saw a missile streak across the sky and impact the jet.

Had Cheney simply made a mistake based upon wrong information it would have been easy to clarify that. Going from saying they did shoot the plane down to denying the plane had been shot down is differt.

[JerryNumbers]

Did you ever consider the possibility that VP Cheney honestly believed at the time that after giving the order, the order was carried out, as the plane did not reach its target? Isn't it possible in the fog and immediacy of war that there will be unintentional mis-information? Ten years earlier Sec Def Cheney said that Scott Speicher was killed when his F/A-18 was downed over Iraq during Operation Desert Storm. For years many believed that he was alive and in one of Saddam's prisons as a trophy. However, in 2009 his remains were recovered not far from where the aircraft had crashed in a shallow grave dug by bedouins.

Several months prior I received a frantic call from my best-friend's mom who saw a report on tv that the USS Saratoga had capsized off Israel. I assured her that the "Super Sara" had not turned over, that the media usually got it wrong. Sure enough, a few minutes later the report was clarified that it was an Israeli ferry that had turned over while transporting Saratoga's sailors. This gave her hope but her nerves were calmed the following day with a call from her son saying that he was safe and sound.

True, & at that time the vice president had not had time to gather all facts, I believe he has touched on that issue more than once.

Not long bad there was an interview of one of the pilots that day, seems he had authority to shoot down a commercial airliner if he deemed it a threat. Quite interesting interview.

[John81]

True, & at that time the vice president had not had time to gather all facts, I believe he has touched on that issue more than once.

Not long bad there was an interview of one of the pilots that day, seems he had authority to shoot down a commercial airliner if he deemed it a threat. Quite interesting interview.

That's the point. Their statements don't agree. If Cheney had made a mistake he could have simply said so. However, that's not the case. Today it's simply denied it ever occured in the first place.

[JerryNumbers]

Was it Mr. Rumsfeld who said that?

"During his surprise Christmas Eve trip to Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld referred to the flight being shot down – long a suspicion because of the danger the flight posed to Washington landmarks and population centers."

And not the vice president?

[swathdiver]

Several eyewitnesses saw fighter jets and several also saw a missile streak across the sky and impact the jet.

Were these the same folks who saw missiles hit TWA 800 off Long Island? Or were they the ones who saw the assassin on the grassy knoll in Dallas? How many of those folks believe in UFOs? What is to be gained by the Federal Government covering up the shoot down? What's the motive? Edited September 23, 2011 by swathdiver

[John81]

Was it Mr. Rumsfeld who said that?

"During his surprise Christmas Eve trip to Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld referred to the flight being shot down – long a suspicion because of the danger the flight posed to Washington landmarks and population centers."

And not the vice president?

The VP said it the same day it happened. Later everyone changed the story to no fighter jets, no orders to shoot down, and no plane shot down.

It's interesting to note that those writing of these things now, who were involved, including Bush, don't address the issue. If I recall, the only thing Bush said in his book that even touched on the issue was that no orders were given to shoot down any planes. The comments of others to the contrary were not addressed.

[John81]

Were these the same folks who saw missiles hit TWA 800 off Long Island? Or were they the ones who saw the assassin on the grassy knoll in Dallas? How many of those folks believe in UFOs? What is to be gained by the Federal Government covering up the shoot down? What's the motive?

I highly doubt these were the same people but if these people had testified against Casey Anthony everyone would believe them and not question what they said they saw.

The witnesses who said they saw fighter jets and the launch and impact were not connected so why would so many people make this claim?

The Feds could want to cover themselves from any possible lawsuits, or more likely the Bush Administration didn't want to be remembered as having been the first administration to shoot down an passenger plane with Americans on board, and perhaps those from other nations whose countries might have made an issue of it.

Why did Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, Johnson, Nixon and so many other presidents lie about things?