It's 1775, Are You A Loyalist Or A Patriot?

[JerryNumbers]

Jas 4:1 ¶ From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

Its quite clear, whence comes wars & fighting, it comes from our lust of our flesh.

It happens in many churches & church associations, someone wanting power, them there is war and fighting, they keep on until the association & or church is split up.

If you want to war & fight have at it, but be careful about what you say the Bible teaches & does not teach about war & fighting, for it teaches that wars & fighting comes from the lust of the flesh.

War & fighting is not Jesus' way, Jesus never teaches anyone to fight, to go to war, and neither did God inspire the writers of the New Testament teach us to go to war, & fight, but He did inspire James to tell us were war and fighting comes from.

War & fighting does not bring glory to our Lord and Savior, not the least bit, it bring dishonor upon Him.

Where is ones trust when they start fighting, & go to war? Its in self, not Christ.

Them after war & fighting is explained, God insired the writer to go on & explain a few more very important things.

Jas 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

[John81]

Jas 4:1 ¶ From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

Its quite clear, whence comes wars & fighting, it comes from our lust of our flesh.

It happens in many churches & church associations, someone wanting power, them there is war and fighting, they keep on until the association & or church is split up.

If you want to war & fight have at it, but be careful about what you say the Bible teaches & does not teach about war & fighting, for it teaches that wars & fighting comes from the lust of the flesh.

War & fighting is not Jesus' way, Jesus never teaches anyone to fight, to go to war, and neither did God inspire the writers of the New Testament teach us to go to war, & fight, but He did inspire James to tell us were war and fighting comes from.

War & fighting does not bring glory to our Lord and Savior, not the least bit, it bring dishonor upon Him.

Where is ones trust when they start fighting, & go to war? Its in self, not Christ.

Them after war & fighting is explained, God insired the writer to go on & explain a few more very important things.

Jas 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

This is where the Christian is to focus their attention:

"Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." 2 Timothy 2:3-4

[HappyChristian]

Jerry8, David said in Psalms that God taught his fingers to war. God told Israel to go to war. There are times when, unfortunately, it is necessary. Going to war for one's country is not an indication of lack of trust in God. That brush tars the Israelites badly, when they were obeying God's orders.

[John81]

Jerry8, David said in Psalms that God taught his fingers to war. God told Israel to go to war. There are times when, unfortunately, it is necessary. Going to war for one's country is not an indication of lack of trust in God. That brush tars the Israelites badly, when they were obeying God's orders.

God ordered those affairs for Israel and David. God has not given such orders to Christians or other nations.

"Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." 2 Timothy 2:3-4

This is the type of soldier Christians are called to be.

[HappyChristian]

AGod does not forbid Christian citizens of a country to go to war as citizens of that country.

[JerryNumbers]

God ordered those affairs for Israel and David. God has not given such orders to Christians or other nations.

"Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." 2 Timothy 2:3-4

This is the type of soldier Christians are called to be.

Amen!


God has not given His Son to us a Savior to save us so that we can go to war with the tools of war killing people.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The war we are to partake of is a spirtual war, if we are going to succed at it, we can not be tied up with the affairs of this world & in the mist of a wars & fighting.

[Seth Doty]

Actually, John, a civil war is a war between organized groups within the same country - they seek to gain control of the government, or change policies. It's not technically correct for the Late Unpleasantness because the country had divided in two (notice how many names I'm using...that war had a plethora of them).

Wasn't the argument over whether or not the country had divided in two the reason for the war between the states in the first place? Seems the south would have needed to win the war in order to validate their position that they were no longer part of the United States. It is a basic fact that if a "war for independence" is lost chances are it will be known as a rebellion, insurrection, etc. and if it is won it will be known as a war for independence, freedom, etc. That is life as a rebellion/insurrection and a war for independence are different sides of the same coin. If a person or group insists that a lost war was "really" a war for independence or that a war that was won by the other side was "really" a rebellion, insurrection, etc. all they are doing is expressing where their sympathies are at. There is a excellent reason why the American civil war is the most common term for the conflict that broke out in the 1860's. It split America right down the middle geographically and ideologically. Some from the south fought for the Northern armies and some Northerners fought for the Southern armies. Murders by lynch mob or other means of those suspected of holding locally unpopular sympathies were common in both the North and South. No other war inflamed our nation to such a degree and no other war in our nations history is still so bitterly argued about to this day, 150 years later. No doubt to this day some on this very board feel strongly enough for the causes of the south that they would willingly take up arms for them again if the conditions were such that it were possible. Likewise some would willingly take up arms for the principles of the North were it necessary. Very divisive war, so much so people even argue today about what to call it because even what you call it is usually perceived as spinning things in favor of one side or another. If your a "good southerner" you usually prefer something like "the war of northern aggression" or "Abe Lincolns war" or "the war for southern independence" and if you hold views more in line with the north you tend to call it the "civil war" or "the war between the states." If you are someone who has views more in line with the north and have become so sick and tired of hearing southern generals spoken of in glowing terms and of the "righteous cause" of the south that you no longer care about tact you call it "the war of the great rebellion" or "the war of southern insurrection". Of course unless you wish to be punched in the nose or waylaid and pulled into a some dark alley by some good southerner you better be north of the mason dixon line or safely behind your computer when you use the last two appellations. :biggrin: Edited September 7, 2011 by Seth-Doty

[blossom]

I studied Historiography at university and I have found this to be very interesting. Americans in general are much more passionate about such things. We Australians tend to be more laid back and less caring of past happenings.

Seth-Doty you are absolutely right about perspective. When I studied Korean History at Korea University it was unbelievably different to the Korean History I studied at an Australian university. I questioned my lecturer about this and she laughed. She told me she taught what I learned in Australia at an American University but in Korea she had to teach what the Koreans are taught all throughout their schooling. I don't believe there is ever a totally accurrate retelling of historical events. We see what we want to see and what serves ourself best. Such is the nature of the human being.

As for my stand on the going to war, I think there is a difference between making/ causing war which as a christian I think is wrong and defending our country/ children or others from tirrany which I would do with all of my God given might. My country has a freedom not experienced in too many other nations which I am grateful for, the men and women who fought to allow this happen deserve the respect and appreciation from the nation that enjoys the privellege of thier sacrafice. We live in a sinful world and no matter how war comes about we owe it to our children to defend our way of life. That's just my opinion!

Thanks for your explanation, LuAnne, I get it now.

Edited September 7, 2011 by blossom

[JerryNumbers]

I studied Historiography at university and I have found this to be very interesting. Americans in general are much more passionate about such things. We Australians tend to be more laid back and less caring of past happenings.

Seth-Doty you are absolutely right about perspective. When I studied Korean History at Korea University it was unbelievably different to the Korean History I studied at an Australian university. I questioned my lecturer about this and she laughed. She told me she taught what I learned in Australia at an American University but in Korea she had to teach what the Koreans are taught all throughout their schooling. I don't believe there is ever a totally accurrate retelling of historical events. We see what we want to see and what serves ourself best. Such is the nature of the human being.

As for my stand on the going to war, I think there is a difference between making/ causing war which as a christian I think is wrong and defending our country/ children or others from tirrany which I would do with all of my God given might. My country has a freedom not experienced in too many other nations which I am grateful for, the men and women who fought to allow this happen deserve the respect and appreciation from the nation that enjoys the privellege of thier sacrafice. We live in a sinful world and no matter how war comes about we owe it to our children to defend our way of life. That's just my opinion!

Thanks for your explanation, LuAnne, I get it now.

I think, this is 'my humble opinion only,' what Americans are so passionate about is position, power, money, & everything being put in their favor so they can make a bundle of money, and they is why political topics gets so heated.

Even in the millennium when Jesus will be ruling, many will be very unhappy and think that Jesus is ruling unfairly. People do not want peace, what they want is for everything to be placed in their favor, so they can make a bundle of money and fulfill their wants.

Right now in America, the wealthy, and the wealthy companies are getting things in their favor by buying favors from our congressmen. Our congressmen will help those that can and will help them. Our political system is corrupt through and though, and it will just wax worse.

One more thing, its been quite a while since America went to war defending their country. Rightly when Pearl harbor was attacked was the last time.

On 9/11, we really did not have a country to attack, yet of course we went to war in Iraq, I think in the future that will be looked on as the wrong thing to have done. Probably more lives were lost by going to war that what would have been lost if we left them alone.

I have no problem with defending our country when attack, I do have a big problem with being the aggressor, starting a war, we know why wars are started, I've posted verses on that subject, and we know God is always right.

[swathdiver]

I tend to believe that God protected our troops and George Washington during the Revolution. Too many miracles happened to be considered chance. I believe the purpose of America was to allow the nation of Israel to exist again and to protect her, with Divine Providence of course!

Americans today are suffering under a tyrannical government much more oppressive than King George. Instead of protecting civil service from Godless people, they've poured into it and legislated the Constitution and God into obscurity. We should have never allowed this. They've been attacking us relentlessly nearly since our inception, chipping away at society, morality and boring into the churches and turning them away from God little by little every decade since. One of their most heinous and devilish acts was to encourage women to kill their unborn children for selfish reasons, what better way than to separate man from God as Karl Marx intended? People think Hitler was evil? The statists in America prove him an amateur!

The American Revolution and War Between the States were defensive actions. The British first attacked the Americans and the North was the agressor towards the South. In my ongoing study of the "civil war" I've learned that a great many of the Generals in the south were practicing Christians compared to the Union Army. I am particularly amazed at all the European Communists who fought as high-ranking Colonels and Generals for the Union Army and yet it is barely taught in school. Do they teach that Karl Marx was a fan of the North's agression, an admirer of Lincoln and wrote to him?

[blossom]

It would seem that our countries are heading in the same direction. Inevitable really and predictable when considering their turning against God.

[John81]

Good posts Jerry and Swath!

[Salyan]

That's an interesting perspective, swath, about God maybe allowing America to exist in order to use her to forward His plans regarding Israel. That actually makes a lot of sense...

[swathdiver]

It would seem that our countries are heading in the same direction. Inevitable really and predictable when considering their turning against God.

Well, both our countries have leaders with ties to Communism. America's is a 3rd generation red-diaper baby, meaning his parents and grand-parents were communists and yours was once a secretary for a local communisty party affiliate if memory serves.

Good posts Jerry and Swath!

Thanks John!

[blossom]

It would seem that our countries are heading in the same direction. Inevitable really and predictable when considering their turning against God.

Well, both our countries have leaders with ties to Communism. America's is a 3rd generation red-diaper baby, meaning his parents and grand-parents were communists and yours was once a secretary for a local communisty party affiliate if memory serves.


Yes that is true she is also the leader or a foundation member of Emily's List, which supports and promotes Abortion. I doubt she'll get back in her ratings are the lowest in Australian History.